Israel Hamas ceasefire - phased hostage release & IDF withdrawal

[tamada]

Shades of the ADF Special Forces war crimes and Soldier C.

And none so stupid as to just believe everything a lying terror groups propaganda machine puts out as fact.

And no, none of these entities "share office spaces" as you claim.

And you know this for certain, how?
The UN Palestinian sympathisers operate in Gaza only with the absolute permission of Hamas. Have you ever seen anything from the UN in Gaza just slightly pro Israel. Who reads and approves everything the UN is allowed to issue from Gaza, is this censor based in separate offices, you seem to have inside information, well done, means you know the next move from Hamas.
Forgot, no one is allowed to question the supreme poster. Sorry.

And you know for certain that they are? This based on what?

Cue the inevitable, if you're not rabidly pro-Israel, then you simply must be a Hamas shill.

No sir. Nobody on this forum is stopping you, me or anyone from respectfully stating their opinions. This is regardless of how ill-informed, narrow-minded or willfully ignorant they may appear to be to others.

[Udon Map]

Cue the inevitable, if you're not rabidly pro-Israel, then you simply must be a Hamas shill.

That's not what I'm saying. Israel is far from perfect. But they didn't start this, either. Murdering and kidnapping civilians is a per se war crime, yet the world seems to be less and less concerned about it with time. Just as Declan says that it's Trump because Trump, here it's the Jews. It's always the Jews' fault.

[jackspratt]

Where are people saying it's always the Jew's fault?

There is certainly plenty of fault on the Israeli state/IDF, just as there is on Hamas and eg Iran or Hezbollah.

[Udon Map]

There is certainly plenty of fault on the Israeli state/IDF, just as there is on Hamas and eg Iran or Hezbollah.

Do you see them as equivalent?

Palestinian man tortured to death by Hamas militants after criticizing group and attending protests, family says
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/01/midd ... index.html

[jackspratt]

No.

Why are you changing the subject?

[Udon Map]

No.

Why are you changing the subject?

I'm not. Trying to make the point that, as increasing numbers of Gazans realize, it's primarily Hamas' fault that Gazans are dying.

[rick]

The 15 Rec Cross/ civil defence staff who were killed all died from bullet wounds. Now, i am sure those of you with military experience know that in a fire fight (even if one sided) that most casualties are injured, not dead. Strange that they all ended up dead? Probable evidence of executions.....

Meanwhile, more and more evidence of torture, starvation and lack of medical care of Palestinian prisoners - most of whom were already in prisons before the Hamas attack. And that is not just from the Palestinian side, it is also from Israeli sources such as B'Tselem.

Israel controls western journalists access to Gaza (and UK MPs) so they can control the narrative - because so many believe Israel rather than Palestinian sources. Just like the aid workers, accused of being Hamas, just because Israel says so. No evidence is, or has been provided for this claim, like in nearly every other case of Medical staff and Journalists killed in Gaza by the IDF.

Israel does what it wants with impunity, because they know USA will always support them. They have destabilised the middle-east and are basically at war with all of it, declared or not.

[Doodoo]

"Meanwhile, more and more evidence of torture, starvation and lack of medical care"

A result of conflicts, Jewish, Palestinian, American, British, South African etc over and over and over again. It will never stop. So why do waste our time in arming ourselves and spend Trillions of dollars every year

This is the reason for me is to say "I dont care"

[Udon Map]

They have destabilised the middle-east . . . .

Agreed. Allowing Hamas to attack it was incredibly destabilizing. All Israel's fault.

[AlexO]

Shades of the ADF Special Forces war crimes and Soldier C.

And none so stupid as to just believe everything a lying terror groups propaganda machine puts out as fact.

And no, none of these entities "share office spaces" as you claim.

And you know this for certain, how?
The UN Palestinian sympathisers operate in Gaza only with the absolute permission of Hamas. Have you ever seen anything from the UN in Gaza just slightly pro Israel. Who reads and approves everything the UN is allowed to issue from Gaza, is this censor based in separate offices, you seem to have inside information, well done, means you know the next move from Hamas.
Forgot, no one is allowed to question the supreme poster. Sorry.

And you know for certain that they are? This based on what?

Cue the inevitable, if you're not rabidly pro-Israel, then you simply must be a Hamas shill.

No sir. Nobody on this forum is stopping you, me or anyone from respectfully stating their opinions. This is regardless of how ill-informed, narrow-minded or willfully ignorant they may appear to be to others.

Sorry Tam but your not making sense. I have questioned you and the usual crowds acceptance of a Palestinian doctors statements without evidence that some of the dead were found with hands tied, therefor it must be a war crime.
I have also pointed out that it is very unusual to find a PROFESSIONAL OUTFIT such as the IDF (though you seem to have a problem with this description) carrying out such a blatantly stupid act in occupied territory as trying to bury ambulances and bodies while leaving really discriminating evidence on the bodies.
Surprised at your penultimate paragraph. You just cannot help yourself can you.
This is regardless of how ill-informed, narrow-minded or willfully ignorant they may appear to be to others.
Are you referring to the people who just believed everything anti-Israeli issued by Hamas or are you just posting another insult as is your normal forte.
If the IDF soldiers are found to be guilty of this crime I truly hope they receive the same punishment from International Courts as the individual perpetrators of October 7th received.

[AlexO]

And you know this for certain, how?

Maybe just refer you to the accidental deaths of Israeli hostages from a bomb attack on a UN building housing Hamas kidnappers and Israeli hostages. Obviously no UN people there, same as no Hamas in the UN Aid Agencies on the 7th October murder fest.

[tamada]

Shades of the ADF Special Forces war crimes and Soldier C.

And none so stupid as to just believe everything a lying terror groups propaganda machine puts out as fact.

And no, none of these entities "share office spaces" as you claim.

And you know this for certain, how?
The UN Palestinian sympathisers operate in Gaza only with the absolute permission of Hamas. Have you ever seen anything from the UN in Gaza just slightly pro Israel. Who reads and approves everything the UN is allowed to issue from Gaza, is this censor based in separate offices, you seem to have inside information, well done, means you know the next move from Hamas.
Forgot, no one is allowed to question the supreme poster. Sorry.

And you know for certain that they are? This based on what?

Cue the inevitable, if you're not rabidly pro-Israel, then you simply must be a Hamas shill.

No sir. Nobody on this forum is stopping you, me or anyone from respectfully stating their opinions. This is regardless of how ill-informed, narrow-minded or willfully ignorant they may appear to be to others.

Sorry Tam but your not making sense. I have questioned you and the usual crowds acceptance of a Palestinian doctors statements without evidence that some of the dead were found with hands tied, therefor it must be a war crime.
I have also pointed out that it is very unusual to find a PROFESSIONAL OUTFIT such as the IDF (though you seem to have a problem with this description) carrying out such a blatantly stupid act in occupied territory as trying to bury ambulances and bodies while leaving really discriminating evidence on the bodies.
Surprised at your penultimate paragraph. You just cannot help yourself can you.
This is regardless of how ill-informed, narrow-minded or willfully ignorant they may appear to be to others.
Are you referring to the people who just believed everything anti-Israeli issued by Hamas or are you just posting another insult as is your normal forte.
If the IDF soldiers are found to be guilty of this crime I truly hope they receive the same punishment from International Courts as the individual perpetrators of October 7th received.

Since the IDF "professionals" denied access to the site for several days after the alleged incident and then presented their version of events without evidence, which is subsequently under review by their own admission, I guess we need to wait and see who is the worst liar. Or the best? The accolade of who is the biggest, worst or most evil belligerent here remains un-awarded at this juncture. However, on the simple metric of a (dead) headcount, the IDF is in the Premier League.

My comment about fellow members and their opinions and "how they appear to be to others" is an acknowledgement that we are free to disagree. I'm not posting any personal insults so I cannot help if you prefer to see it that way. If you are feeling upset for other people who may or may not feel insulted, I can't help you with that either.

[AlexO]

Since the IDF "professionals" denied access to the site for several days after the alleged incident and then presented their version of events without evidence, which is subsequently under review by their own admission, I guess we need to wait and see who is the worst liar. Or the best? The accolade of who is the biggest, worst or most evil belligerent here remains un-awarded at this juncture. However, on the simple metric of a (dead) headcount, the IDF is in the Premier League.

My comment about fellow members and their opinions and "how they appear to be to others" is an acknowledgement that we are free to disagree. I'm not posting any personal insults so I cannot help if you prefer to see it that way. If you are feeling upset for other people who may or may not feel insulted, I can't help you with that either.
[/quote]

It's good that you acknowledge others are permitted to disagree with you, hopefully without the cleverly worded insults. You seem to have a problem with the term Professional, good for you. However in many peoples minds the IDF does almost 100% of the time adhere to the Rules of Warfare which are really only designed to ensure that identifiable, uniformed combatants are treated with an agreed code of conduct not a bunch of terrorists hiding in civilian dress behind women and children.
Your statement , "we need to wait and see" is probably the best you have managed for a while.

[jackspratt]

For those who may be interested, I suggest looking at around 0.52, but more particularly 1.07 of this video, which has been posted by the UK news site, ITV.

While you are looking, also perhaps consider how anyone else, other than the IDF, would have been able to bury these bodies, and crush and bury the vehicles, at several metres under the ground, all under the watchful eyes of the IDF.



If the YT video doesn't render, you can also see it here https://www.itv.com/news/2025-04-02/itv ... e-executed

[Udon Map]

Bunch of interesting things going on here, and IMO it's just too early to tell where the truth lies. In no particular order....

Press reports, e.g., Jack's video: There are numerous comments in these threads about how the IDF tightly controls who gets into Gaza, where they go, and what news gets out. If the IDF really was responsible for this, and it happened as alleged, how did this reporters get the story, and how did it get out?

One person's report that the vehicle lights were on: Yes, I know, the rest of the occupants of the vehicles are dead. We know that Hamas is unmerciful (to put it gently) to "Palestinians" who don't follow the party line. If we consider the possibility that Hamas killed these people, the lone survivor was hardly free to say so, for fear of torture and death for him and his family.

We know that Hamas lies. Just last week the death listings were updated and analysis shows that a much smaller percentage of deaths were women and children than what was originally reported.

I'm not taking sides here, as I said originally, IMO it's too early to tell. But it's also far from an open-and-shut-case.

[AlexO]

For those who may be interested, I suggest looking at around 0.52, but more particularly 1.07 of this video, which has been posted by the UK news site, ITV.

While you are looking, also perhaps consider how anyone else, other than the IDF, would have been able to bury these bodies, and crush and bury the vehicles, at several metres under the ground, all under the watchful eyes of the IDF.



If the YT video doesn't render, you can also see it here https://www.itv.com/news/2025-04-02/itv ... e-executed

Who controlled the rather large excavation machine used to uncover the crushed ambulances and bodies from a deep trench they managed to dig.
Not trying to hide the outcomes of an investigation just pointing out Hamas have heavy equipment as well who knew the exact spot to open up the ground.

[Udon Map]

Who controlled the rather large excavation machine used to uncover the crushed ambulances and bodies from a deep trench they managed to dig.

Not trying to hide the outcomes of an investigation just pointing out Hamas have heavy equipment as well who knew the exact spot to open up the ground.

Two good questions for the investigation to address, without doubt.