TAX on Income from Abroad

[Declan MacPherson]

HUGE BACKTRACK on TAX REMITTANCES

Thailand could ease rules on income from overseas
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... eas-490793

Thailand’s government is considering easing the tax rules on individuals’ overseas income to encourage the remittance of those funds back into the country. Finance minister Pichai Chunhavajira said a change in the global economic situation was relevant but did not elaborate.

The finance minister did not refer to foreigners in his statement to the press. He briefly stated that he wanted Thais to remit more of their funds from overseas locations. Thai tax consultants warn it is far too early to guess the intentions of the government and its consequences for Thai citizens or expats or both. Further official clarification is expected within a few weeks.

Americans are still in good shape due to the Treaty of Amity, which treats Americans as Thai Nationals.

[sometimewoodworker]

Americans are still in good shape due to the Treaty of Amity, which treats Americans as Thai Nationals.

The US-Thailand Treaty of Amity has nothing to do with individuals and personal tax payment unless they have a business in Thailand that has been registered under the Treaty of Amity. Also while allowing many types of business that are prohibited to non Thai nationals

The Thailand Treaty of Amity prohibits American investors from engaging in the following reserved activities:

• Communications
  Transportation;
  Fiduciary functions
  Banking involving depository functions;
  Land Ownership, Exploitation of land or
  Other natural resources; and
  Domestic trade in indigenous agricultural products.

So no Americans are not treated as Thai nationals.

It is the Thailand USA DTA that is relevant to American individuals who are tax resident in Thailand

[Declan MacPherson]

Americans are still in good shape due to the Treaty of Amity, which treats Americans as Thai Nationals.

The US-Thailand Treaty of Amity has nothing to do with individuals and personal tax payment unless they have a business in Thailand that has been registered under the Treaty of Amity. Also while allowing many types of business that are prohibited to non Thai nationals

The Thailand Treaty of Amity prohibits American investors from engaging in the following reserved activities:

• Communications
  Transportation;
  Fiduciary functions
  Banking involving depository functions;
  Land Ownership, Exploitation of land or
  Other natural resources; and
  Domestic trade in indigenous agricultural products.

So no Americans are not treated as Thai nationals.

It is the Thailand USA DTA that is relevant to American individuals who are tax resident in Thailand

You're wrong.

[Udon Map]

You're wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of ... ed_States)

[semperfiguy]

Under Article VI of the Treaty of Amity, see this:

2. Each Party, however, reserves the right to: (a) extend specific tax advantages only on
the basis of reciprocity, or pursuant to agreements for the avoidance of double taxation or
the mutual protection of revenue: and (b) apply special provisions in extending advantages
to its nationals and residents in connection with joint returns by husband and wife, and as
to the exemptions of a personal nature allowed to non-residents in connection with income
and inheritance taxes.
3. Companies of zither Party shall not be subject. within the territories of the other Party, to
the payment of taxes upon income not attributable to sources within such territories, or
upon transactions or capital not attributable to the operations and investments thereof
within such territories.

[jackspratt]

Under Article VI of the Treaty of Amity, see this:

Yes, but you can't ignore Article V1.1 ie

1. Nationals and companies of either Party shall not be subject to the payment of taxes, fees or charges within the territories of the other Party, or to requirements with respect to the levy and collection thereof, more burdensome than those borne by nationals, residents and companies of any third country. In the case of nationals of either Party residing within the territories of the other Party, and of companies of either Party engaged in trade or other gainful pursuit or in non-profit activities therein, such taxes, fees, charges and requirements shall not be more burdensome than those borne by nationals and companies of such other Party.

As for 2. - have (a) any specific tax advantages or (b) special provisions, been extended to US nationals that you, or anyone else, is aware of?

3. is irrelevant to this discussion.

All in all, a fair reading suggests to me that US nationals in Thailand, for tax purposes under this Treaty, are in no different position to citizens of any other country.

But there may be a clown lawyer in Bangkok who has a different opinion, and good luck to anyone who wants to listen to them.

For example, if such a lawyer told me that regulations aren't laws, I would immediately be looking for a new lawyer, who knows what they are talking about.

[Declan MacPherson]

Under Article VI of the Treaty of Amity, see this:

2. Each Party, however, reserves the right to: (a) extend specific tax advantages only on
the basis of reciprocity, or pursuant to agreements for the avoidance of double taxation or the mutual protection of revenue: and (b) apply special provisions in extending advantages to its nationals and residents in connection with joint returns by husband and wife, and as to the exemptions of a personal nature allowed to non-residents in connection with income and inheritance taxes.

3. Companies of zither Party shall not be subject. within the territories of the other Party, to the payment of taxes upon income not attributable to sources within such territories, or upon transactions or capital not attributable to the operations and investments thereof within such territories.

You get it, SFG.

Guidance from a tax attorney in Thailand is preferable to someone who views themselves as an expert in the Udon Map forum or from a disgruntled America-hating expat.

[tamada]

Under Article VI of the Treaty of Amity, see this:

2. Each Party, however, reserves the right to: (a) extend specific tax advantages only on
the basis of reciprocity, or pursuant to agreements for the avoidance of double taxation or the mutual protection of revenue: and (b) apply special provisions in extending advantages to its nationals and residents in connection with joint returns by husband and wife, and as to the exemptions of a personal nature allowed to non-residents in connection with income and inheritance taxes.

3. Companies of zither Party shall not be subject. within the territories of the other Party, to the payment of taxes upon income not attributable to sources within such territories, or upon transactions or capital not attributable to the operations and investments thereof within such territories.

You get it, SFG.

Guidance from a tax attorney in Thailand is preferable to someone who views themselves as an expert in the Udon Map forum or from a disgruntled America-hating expat.

Point of order there Dec old chum. Nobody here hates Americans. Now some members dislike certain American members and abhor their glib smugness or groundless political bombast but there's no overall hatred for American people.

Hope this helps.

[sometimewoodworker]

You get it, SFG.

Guidance from a tax attorney in Thailand is preferable to someone who views themselves as an expert in the Udon Map forum or from a disgruntled America-hating expat.

Point of order there Dec old chum. Nobody here hates Americans. Now some members dislike certain American members and abhor their glib smugness or groundless political bombast but there's no overall hatred for American people.

Hope this helps.

So true.

As to hating any nationality I don’t know of anyone who does.

As to intense dislike there is only one subset of one nationality and age group who incurs that reaction in me and since no longer spend virtually any time in KS road Bangkok I never meet them in groups large enough now, and even in the past a trip to Malaysia or Indonesia meant I would not see them.

As to intense dislike of the actions of subsets of nationalities it is hardly surprising that a country that encourages its “law enforcement groups” to steal items (mostly money) from it’s citizens (civil asset forfeiture). Also allows and actively encourages activities that are equally heinous. It is not surprising that those groups bring the reputations of the whole country down.

That any individual has no possibility of influence doesn’t help the reputation of his country, he is tainted to some degree by association, and only personal interaction will change that.

[semperfiguy]

Under Article VI of the Treaty of Amity, see this:

2. Each Party, however, reserves the right to: (a) extend specific tax advantages only on
the basis of reciprocity, or pursuant to agreements for the avoidance of double taxation or the mutual protection of revenue: and (b) apply special provisions in extending advantages to its nationals and residents in connection with joint returns by husband and wife, and as to the exemptions of a personal nature allowed to non-residents in connection with income and inheritance taxes.

3. Companies of zither Party shall not be subject. within the territories of the other Party, to the payment of taxes upon income not attributable to sources within such territories, or upon transactions or capital not attributable to the operations and investments thereof within such territories.

You get it, SFG.

Guidance from a tax attorney in Thailand is preferable to someone who views themselves as an expert in the Udon Map forum or from a disgruntled America-hating expat.

Thanks Declan! I got it a long time ago. Some members sit in wait for me to pop my head up so they can take a potshot at me. They simply despise the Christian conservative American who disturbs their inner demons!

[Declan MacPherson]

Thanks Declan! I got it a long time ago. Some members sit in wait for me to pop my head up so they can take a potshot at me. They simply despise the Christian conservative American who disturbs their inner demons!

THAT is a fact, but Leftists and the intellectually dishonest always deny it -- and ramble on about whatever it is that they're trying to say to try and escape guilt.

[jackspratt]

Thanks Declan! I got it a long time ago. Some members sit in wait for me to pop my head up so they can take a potshot at me. They simply despise the Christian conservative American who disturbs their inner demons!

You may have noticed I have north of 17,000 posts, sfg - so I am hardly waiting for you to "pop your head up" so I can provide a reasonable, polite and rational response to your equally reasonable, though (IMO) incomplete post.

As for inner demons, it is not me who is seeking answers and forgiveness from a mythical being who lives in a place far away.

[Declan MacPherson]

In literature, there is dialogue that suggests that guilty people act guilty. People who are innocent rarely ever act guilty. Guilty people are more likely to have something strike a nerve, and that internal guilt compels them to speak.

The phrase "the guilty shall speak" implies that most individuals who are guilty will eventually reveal their guilt through their actions or words, a concept that is explored in various forms of secular media and secular literature, as well as religious texts like the Bible.

It seems to be a universal view and characteristic within the whole of society whether one is a person of Faith or not.

[Bandung_Dero]

As for inner demons, it is not me who is seeking answers and forgiveness from a mythical being who lives in a place far away.

There ya go, maybe J.C. can liase with Budda and bring some sense to this tax thingy.
Should imagine it would look like a meeting between Trump and Putin over Ukraine with the same results = nothing.

[jackspratt]

There ya go, maybe J.C. can liase with Budda and bring some sense to this tax thingy.

Not necessary - apparently there is a tax attorney in Bangkok who has all the answers ....... for the gullible and uninquiring.

[semperfiguy]

This morning, I filed my Thai Tax Return at the Thai Revenue Department in Udon Thani. Every year I file to get a refund of the withholding tax on interest paid by Bangkok Bank. I was anticipating a broad discussion of my foreign income which I brought into Thailand in 2024, so I was prepared with all of the documentation to show that I should owe no taxes. I supplied my annual US Social Security Benefit Statement showing that income which is NOT ASSESSABLE as income in Thailand according to the DTA (Double Taxation Agreement) between the US and Thailand. I showed my complete 2024 online Bangkok Bank statement showing all transfers of funds into Thailand, and since those funds amounted to less than my SS Income, there was no question that I DID NOT owe Thailand any taxes. Of course, our tax returns will always be subject to audit in the future, so just to be on the safe side, I will keep a file of all of my supporting evidence for 2024 in case I have to produce it later on for an audit. For the past three years I have sat at the desk of Mr. Nikorn. He is a likeable guy who speaks very little English, and this morning he depended on me to explain to him how the new foreign income tax scheme works in Thailand. I gathered that he knew very little about the rules, so I took control of the interview and got things done MY WAY. Easy peasy!

[Declan MacPherson]

This morning, I filed my Thai Tax Return at the Thai Revenue Department in Udon Thani. Every year I file to get a refund of the withholding tax on interest paid by Bangkok Bank. I was anticipating a broad discussion of my foreign income which I brought into Thailand in 2024, so I was prepared with all of the documentation to show that I should owe no taxes. I supplied my annual US Social Security Benefit Statement showing that income which is NOT ASSESSABLE as income in Thailand according to the DTA (Double Taxation Agreement) between the US and Thailand. I showed my complete 2024 online Bangkok Bank statement showing all transfers of funds into Thailand, and since those funds amounted to less than my SS Income, there was no question that I DID NOT owe Thailand any taxes. Of course, our tax returns will always be subject to audit in the future, so just to be on the safe side, I will keep a file of all of my supporting evidence for 2024 in case I have to produce it later on for an audit. For the past three years I have sat at the desk of Mr. Nikorn. He is a likeable guy who speaks very little English, and this morning he depended on me to explain to him how the new foreign income tax scheme works in Thailand. I gathered that he knew very little about the rules, so I took control of the interview and got things done MY WAY. Easy peasy!

Congrats on your outstanding success! Glad it worked out for you.

[glalt]

I expect some questions from the government. I recently transferred a full year of my Social Security to my Thai bank account.

[kopkei]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... Zdht4MDxGw
sorry if this was posted here before(?) , ignore it ....as info

[sometimewoodworker]

I expect some questions from the government. I recently transferred a full year of my Social Security to my Thai bank account.

You will only get questions from the TRD branch of government in a very few situations.
1) you are making a tax declaration.
2) you are selected for audit.

To the best of my knowledge The TRD has heretofore never been known to approach tax residents to request a tax return.

Tax residents who have approached the TRD have been told that 1) they need to file a return as their assessable income exceeds the allowances and tax free limit or 2) that even though they may have assessable income because it isn’t enough to require them to pay tax no return will be accepted.

@glalt I don’t know from which country your Social Security is coming, however if it is the USA it is non-assessable income. Other countries have other arrangements, see your DTA/DTC for details.

NB if you do not file a return you may be audited up to 2034/5, if you do file a tax return the audit must be started by 2027