Labour's new leader

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vincemunday
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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 7, 2020, 1:53 pm

Less salubrious sponsors Tam? To be honest I had you down as someone who was quite intelligent, now i seriously have my doubts. As I've pointed out before, the rules on Party donations and the reporting of them are very, very strict, you don't just get the local gangster and his moll turn up with a suitcase of money ffs.

I never had anything to do with the Brexit Party other than a minor bit of activism, I was already in Thailand by the time it was founded. UKIP was funded by very respectable businessmen and it's membership, my guess is that many of the sponsors would have moved over as indeed would much of the membership, there are a great number of wealthy people who believe in his ability to change politics for the better and i'm sure many would have stuck with him, are still sticking with him.

IF he decides to found a new Party, i'm confident many of the old sponsors will want to donate but the vast majority of the money will come from the membership, people will join the party in their droves (as they did the Brexit Party) and i doubt funds will be the issue.


The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » April 7, 2020, 4:11 pm

vincemunday wrote:
April 7, 2020, 1:53 pm
Less salubrious sponsors Tam? To be honest I had you down as someone who was quite intelligent, now i seriously have my doubts. As I've pointed out before, the rules on Party donations and the reporting of them are very, very strict, you don't just get the local gangster and his moll turn up with a suitcase of money ffs.

I never had anything to do with the Brexit Party other than a minor bit of activism, I was already in Thailand by the time it was founded. UKIP was funded by very respectable businessmen and it's membership, my guess is that many of the sponsors would have moved over as indeed would much of the membership, there are a great number of wealthy people who believe in his ability to change politics for the better and i'm sure many would have stuck with him, are still sticking with him.

IF he decides to found a new Party, i'm confident many of the old sponsors will want to donate but the vast majority of the money will come from the membership, people will join the party in their droves (as they did the Brexit Party) and i doubt funds will be the issue.
I have never doubted your intelligence either notionally or on this forum. Neither have I slammed your political opinions. When I wrote in an earlier post that I respect your opinions, I meant it.

If he still has the popular and financial support, why does he need to start a new party? What's wrong with the Brexit Party as-is?

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 7, 2020, 4:53 pm

The secret is in the name "BREXIT", many of the people who stood for the Brexit Party were staunch Labourites and Conservatives, they joined because they felt the govt should uphold the result of the referendum not because of any political leaning.
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by AlexO » April 7, 2020, 5:54 pm

vincemunday wrote:
April 7, 2020, 4:53 pm
The secret is in the name "BREXIT", many of the people who stood for the Brexit Party were staunch Labourites and Conservatives, they joined because they felt the govt should uphold the result of the referendum not because of any political leaning.
Absolutely correct. If Scotland ever commits collective suicide and becomes independent what do the SNP call themselves after that? Scottish Labour 2 with no allegiance to Labour.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » April 7, 2020, 6:21 pm

vincemunday wrote:
April 5, 2020, 6:34 pm
Back to the regular thread, when are we expecting Starmer to put out some kind of manifesto, does anyone know?
New party leaders don't arbitrarily issue manifestos unless there's been a putsch or coup, political parties do that. We wait until the party conference (c/o Zoom no doubt) so see what they've hatched. But for starters, we can look at his shadow cabinet and maybe get a sense who who gets top trumps, who gets an olive branch and who gets the table in the corner near the toilets? So, as Bamber Gascoigne used to say, here's your starter for ten.

The shadow cabinet in full:

• Keir Starmer, leader of the opposition.
• Angela Rayner, deputy leader and chair of the Labour party.
• Anneliese Dodds, shadow chancellor of the exchequer.
• Lisa Nandy, shadow foreign secretary.
• Nick Thomas-Symonds, shadow home secretary.
• Rachel Reeves, shadow chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.
• David Lammy, shadow justice secretary.
• John Healey, shadow defence secretary.
• Ed Miliband, shadow business, energy and industrial secretary.
• Emily Thornberry, shadow international trade secretary.
• Jonathan Reynolds, shadow work and pensions secretary.
• Jonathan Ashworth, shadow secretary of state for health and social care.
• Rebecca Long-Bailey, shadow education secretary.
• Jo Stevens, shadow digital, culture, media and sport secretary.
• Bridget Phillipson, shadow chief secretary to the Treasury.
• Luke Pollard, shadow environment, food and rural affairs secretary.
• Steve Reed, shadow communities and local government secretary.
• Thangam Debbonaire, shadow housing secretary.
• Jim McMahon, shadow transport secretary.
• Preet Kaur Gill, shadow international development secretary.
• Louise Haigh, shadow Northern Ireland secretary (interim while Tony Lloyd is in hospital being treated for coronavirus).
• Ian Murray, shadow Scotland secretary.
• Nia Griffith, shadow Wales secretary.
• Marsha de Cordova, shadow women and equalities secretary.
• Andy McDonald, shadow employment rights and protections secretary.
• Rosena Allin-Khan, shadow minister for mental health.
• Cat Smith, shadow minister for young people and voter engagement.
• Lord Falconer, shadow attorney general.
• Valerie Vaz, shadow leader of the house.
• Nick Brown, opposition chief whip.
• Lady Smith, shadow leader of the Lords.
• Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition chief whip.

Ed 'bacon lips' Milliband makes a 'welcome return' and I see that DM's "arrogant lump of posh lard" has gotten the international trade thingmie, apparently losing the shadow foreign secretary gig to Nandy. Is Rebecca Long-Bailey the only sop to Corbyn's failed dynasty in among this lot? Rayner could possibly have been one of those left on the back benches but she tended to distance herself from Corbyn's lot towards the end. Maybe she'll be a go-between?

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by Drunk Monkey » April 7, 2020, 7:27 pm

tamada wrote:
April 7, 2020, 6:21 pm
vincemunday wrote:
April 5, 2020, 6:34 pm
Back to the regular thread, when are we expecting Starmer to put out some kind of manifesto, does anyone know?
New party leaders don't arbitrarily issue manifestos unless there's been a putsch or coup, political parties do that. We wait until the party conference (c/o Zoom no doubt) so see what they've hatched. But for starters, we can look at his shadow cabinet and maybe get a sense who who gets top trumps, who gets an olive branch and who gets the table in the corner near the toilets? So, as Bamber Gascoigne used to say, here's your starter for ten.

The shadow cabinet in full:

• Keir Starmer, leader of the opposition.
• Angela Rayner, deputy leader and chair of the Labour party.
• Anneliese Dodds, shadow chancellor of the exchequer.
• Lisa Nandy, shadow foreign secretary.
• Nick Thomas-Symonds, shadow home secretary.
• Rachel Reeves, shadow chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.
• David Lammy, shadow justice secretary.
• John Healey, shadow defence secretary.
• Ed Miliband, shadow business, energy and industrial secretary.
Emily Thornberry, shadow international trade secretary.
• Jonathan Reynolds, shadow work and pensions secretary.
• Jonathan Ashworth, shadow secretary of state for health and social care.
• Rebecca Long-Bailey, shadow education secretary.
• Jo Stevens, shadow digital, culture, media and sport secretary.
• Bridget Phillipson, shadow chief secretary to the Treasury.
• Luke Pollard, shadow environment, food and rural affairs secretary.
• Steve Reed, shadow communities and local government secretary.
• Thangam Debbonaire, shadow housing secretary.
• Jim McMahon, shadow transport secretary.
• Preet Kaur Gill, shadow international development secretary.
• Louise Haigh, shadow Northern Ireland secretary (interim while Tony Lloyd is in hospital being treated for coronavirus).
• Ian Murray, shadow Scotland secretary.
• Nia Griffith, shadow Wales secretary.
• Marsha de Cordova, shadow women and equalities secretary.
• Andy McDonald, shadow employment rights and protections secretary.
• Rosena Allin-Khan, shadow minister for mental health.
• Cat Smith, shadow minister for young people and voter engagement.
• Lord Falconer, shadow attorney general.
• Valerie Vaz, shadow leader of the house.
• Nick Brown, opposition chief whip.
• Lady Smith, shadow leader of the Lords.
• Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition chief whip.

Ed 'bacon lips' Milliband makes a 'welcome return' and I see that DM's "arrogant lump of posh lard" has gotten the international trade thingmie, apparently losing the shadow foreign secretary gig to Nandy. Is Rebecca Long-Bailey the only sop to Corbyn's failed dynasty in among this lot? Rayner could possibly have been one of those left on the back benches but she tended to distance herself from Corbyn's lot towards the end. Maybe she'll be a go-between?
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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 7, 2020, 9:06 pm

The Kier Starmer manifesto, more of the same.

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 8, 2020, 6:48 am

Sorry Tam, missed this and as usual you aren’t quite correct, ALL people standing for election issue a manifesto of sorts, even me when I stood, how will people know what they are voting for if you don’t?

“New party leaders don't arbitrarily issue manifestos unless there's been a putsch or coup, political parties do that.”
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » April 9, 2020, 12:08 pm

So, who's really backing Starmer? Owen's stalking horse?

https://novaramedia.com/2019/12/23/the- ... wen-smith/

Momentum's former leader pitched for him. Was this a "major blow for Rebecca Long-Bailey" and Momentum?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... -the-party

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 9, 2020, 3:04 pm

tamada wrote:
April 9, 2020, 12:08 pm
So, who's really backing Starmer? Owen's stalking horse?

https://novaramedia.com/2019/12/23/the- ... wen-smith/

Momentum's former leader pitched for him. Was this a "major blow for Rebecca Long-Bailey" and Momentum?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... -the-party
As much as I dislike momentum and what they stand for I have to admit they are usually very unified, I've not heard of much infighting and this, if it's correct, comes as bit of a shock even though I never saw Long-Bailey as a serious contender, even the dimmest of the dim had to realise her politics had been given a go by her mentor and they weren't popular to say the least. Knowing Momentum it wouldn't surprise me if there'd been a last minute change of heart and their collective weight was put behind Starmer, but I've not researched it.
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » May 22, 2020, 9:11 am

A big win for Keir Starmer... but this U-turn doesn’t mean Boris Johnson is weak

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... nson-weak/

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » May 22, 2020, 1:17 pm

tamada wrote:
May 22, 2020, 9:11 am
A big win for Keir Starmer... but this U-turn doesn’t mean Boris Johnson is weak

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... nson-weak/
I think this change of policy had the backing of the British public, he was right to U turn.
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » May 22, 2020, 3:11 pm

^ True and most of his Cabinet and pretty much all the backbenchers were against it too. Makes me wonder who's giving him advice in the first place? When Boris defends this at PMQ's and beyond only to change his mind maybe less than five hours later? Narrowly missed shooting his own foot. How could the advisers be so out of step?

Easy win for Starmer but maybe there's some obscure, political reverse logic at play here in that Starmer never wrestled an unlikely win against stern opposition.

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