Capitalism vs Socialism

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noosard
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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by noosard » October 4, 2019, 9:00 pm

lol
Russia you mean the soviet union which collapsed due to communism failure
so the bosses there became rich while the peasants became poorer
total winner all around



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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Lone Star » October 4, 2019, 9:16 pm

noosard wrote:
October 4, 2019, 9:00 pm
lol
Russia you mean the soviet union which collapsed due to communism failure
so the bosses there became rich while the peasants became poorer
total winner all around
Outstanding observation! Another sledgehammer driving a nail for truth. Fully agree.
1) Russia was the first to send men to space
2) Nikolay Basov co inventor of the laser
3) Mikhail Kalashnikov AK47
4) Sergei Yudin cadaveric blood transfusion
All government-allowed creations.

No one ever said that totalitarian regimes never invent anything.

Like I said,
"We rarely read of any similar creativity and achievement in totalitarian socialist societies. If they do happen, it is only because the oppressive big government permits it to happen and makes sure that the big government derives a direct benefit."
The SOVIETS derived a direct benefit from all four and "allowed" them to happen.

For those who don't know who Dr. Yudin is, go read how he was ALLOWED to go to the US, observe medical procedures there and return to the SOVIET UNION to do his blood transfusion gig in 1930. This revelation is only intended to show that Yudin did not even have the individual freedom to go anywhere and improve his skills/training -- or to even observe -- without getting permission.

There is no economic system that eliminates evil, crime, protests, battered women, debates, drug use, child abuse and unequal outcomes in the society or in the world. Those events are NOT relevant to Socialism vs Capitalism as economic systems. Those societal problems are about human behavior and sociology.

Socialism vs Capitalism isn't a discussion about the ills of society and imperfection of human beings. It's about the role of government and the liberty of the people (or lack of liberty) within those economic systems to create and KEEP what they've created as their own. It is one economic system with huge government controls and government funding vs another economic system with fewer government controls that nurtures and promotes individual liberty and creativity.
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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by AlexO » October 5, 2019, 8:26 am

There is no economic system that eliminates evil, crime, protests, battered women, debates, drug use, child abuse and unequal outcomes in the society or in the world. Those events are NOT relevant to Socialism vs Capitalism as economic systems. Those societal problems are about human behavior and sociology.

Socialism vs Capitalism isn't a discussion about the ills of society and imperfection of human beings. It's about the role of government and the liberty of the people (or lack of liberty) within those economic systems to create and KEEP what they've created as their own. It is one economic system with huge government controls and government funding vs another economic system with fewer government controls that nurtures and promotes individual liberty and creativity.

Spot on LS, Mr. Doodoo's request was what capitalist country was a success? His response to answers was to go on about crime, indigenous people and immigration problems experienced in successful Capitalist Countries, your response was excellent. I would also point out to Mr. Doodoo that immigration is only a problem in Capitalist Countries because of the numbers of people trying to escape from Communist or Dictatorship controlled Countries into Capitalist Countries where life is perceived to be superior to anything they can possibly dream of in their own homelands. I would also point out that up to now I have not noticed any mass emigration from Capitalist Countries to the utopian Communist, Socialist or Dictator ruled Countries.

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Lone Star » October 6, 2019, 2:22 pm

AlexO wrote:
October 5, 2019, 8:26 am
. . .
I would also point out to Mr. Doodoo that immigration is only a problem in Capitalist Countries because of the numbers of people trying to escape from Communist or Dictatorship controlled Countries into Capitalist Countries where life is perceived to be superior to anything they can possibly dream of in their own homelands. I would also point out that up to now I have not noticed any mass emigration from Capitalist Countries to the utopian Communist, Socialist or Dictator ruled Countries.
BOOM BOOM BOOM!

I sincerely wish I had posted that. Sincerely.


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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by papafarang » October 6, 2019, 2:44 pm

Lone Star wrote:
October 6, 2019, 2:22 pm
AlexO wrote:
October 5, 2019, 8:26 am
. . .
I would also point out to Mr. Doodoo that immigration is only a problem in Capitalist Countries because of the numbers of people trying to escape from Communist or Dictatorship controlled Countries into Capitalist Countries where life is perceived to be superior to anything they can possibly dream of in their own homelands. I would also point out that up to now I have not noticed any mass emigration from Capitalist Countries to the utopian Communist, Socialist or Dictator ruled Countries.
BOOM BOOM BOOM!

I sincerely wish I had posted that. Sincerely.



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well you got that wrong, I have an American customer that believes in free education, healthcare who says fuc America and moved to a dictatorship to feel free
the world is not my home, I'm just a passenger

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by AlexO » October 6, 2019, 3:08 pm

well you got that wrong, I have an American customer that believes in free education, healthcare who says fuc America and moved to a dictatorship to feel free
[/quote]

Eh, I am sure I said mass emigration, a single Sherman is hardly an accurate description of MASS.

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Doodoo » October 6, 2019, 5:13 pm

Immigrant population in Russia by country of birth

11 Germany 244,662
12 Afghanistan 150,000
13 United States of America 142,405
14 Turkey 111,681
15 United Kingdom 111,275
16 Finland 77,665
17 Vietnam 53,649
18 Italy 53,649
19 France 53,382
20 Spain 45,935
21 Lithuania 42,672
22 Without citizenship 35,489
23 Philippines 34,755
24 North Korea 34,217
25 Serbia 33,591
26 Canada 32,107

Cut and paste was of course used in this posting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Russia

I am wondering if anyone told the 142,405 from the USA that there not supposed to be there

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by noosard » October 6, 2019, 5:25 pm

We have all moved to the dictatorship of Thailand
Cost and freedoms are some of the reasons we are here

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Lone Star » October 6, 2019, 5:55 pm

.

Contrary to anyone's "feelings" or a person's change in priorities in life, Free Enterprise still provides the most benefit for individuals of all income levels to have the opportunity for upward mobility through their own hard work and creativity. The individual owns their labor and private property in free markets.

An individual who does not like having to compete in an economic system and wants someone else or government to provide what they "feel" is important for their life and livelihood, does not change the freedoms afforded to everyone in Free Enterprise. It also means that they will have to give up something to get that stuff. They're making a trade based on what they think is important for them. Those individuals who don't want to compete in a free market can leave the free market. It may be unattractive to them, but it doesn't change the rules and the opportunities afforded in free markets for those who choose to remain and compete.

An argument that uses a handful of people -- or even thousands -- who prefer to live under government control in exchange for services that they perceive are "free" (when nothing is actually free and is paid for by someone else), does not make Free Enterprise and Capitalism any less attractive for individual success and achievement. When it comes to the liberty and freedom to freely and voluntarily exchange goods and services for profit and to increase one's wealth, capitalism still provides more opportunities for those who want to compete in free markets. The competition of the free markets is only unattractive to those uncompetitive individuals who want the government to take care of their needs.

An individual who has retired and is no longer competing for income and achievement (but trying to preserve what they've earned), and has different goals and objectives, does not change the fact that Free Enterprise still provides more freedom to earn and achieve for those who still wish to do so.

An argument that uses individuals who have retired and moved to locations that have a lower cost of living, and individuals who are no longer competing for advancement, achievement and financial wealth, does not make Free Enterprise and Capitalism any less attractive when it comes to the liberty and freedom to freely and voluntarily exchange goods and services for profit and to increase one's wealth. Retirees have different priorities.

In summary, Capitalism still provides more freedoms, upward mobility, opportunities for achievement and financial rewards that are OWNED by the individual who has achieved.
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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by TJ » October 7, 2019, 2:41 am

Trying_Socialism20180816125652.jpg

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by papafarang » October 7, 2019, 6:31 am

AlexO wrote:
October 6, 2019, 3:08 pm
well you got that wrong, I have an American customer that believes in free education, healthcare who says fuc America and moved to a dictatorship to feel free
Eh, I am sure I said mass emigration, a single Sherman is hardly an accurate description of MASS.
[/quote]

I was replying to loners meme of zero
the world is not my home, I'm just a passenger

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by AlexO » October 7, 2019, 11:08 am

Doodoo wrote:
October 6, 2019, 5:13 pm
Immigrant population in Russia by country of birth

11 Germany 244,662
12 Afghanistan 150,000
13 United States of America 142,405
14 Turkey 111,681
15 United Kingdom 111,275
16 Finland 77,665
17 Vietnam 53,649
18 Italy 53,649
19 France 53,382
20 Spain 45,935
21 Lithuania 42,672
22 Without citizenship 35,489
23 Philippines 34,755
24 North Korea 34,217
25 Serbia 33,591
26 Canada 32,107

Cut and paste was of course used in this posting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Russia

I am wondering if anyone told the 142,405 from the USA that there not supposed to be there
So taking out the Communist Country numbers we have just over 1.2 million from a world population of nearly 7 billion.
Hardly mass emigration to a Communist State is it.

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Lone Star » October 7, 2019, 11:16 am

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Lone Star » October 8, 2019, 9:57 am

.

142,500 Americans migrating to Russia represents 0.044% of the US population. Less than 1/22 of a PERCENT. It's roughly the size of the city of Mesquite, Texas.

The wonderful thing about free markets and Individual Liberty -- and America -- is that it allows Americans to live anywhere they wish and wherever they're accepted.

Immigration motivations are based on two primary causes: a push factor and a pull factor. One causes a person to want to leave where they are. The other causes a person to select a particular place to live.

Those factors do not affect the two economic systems of capitalism and socialism. The two economic systems represent choices between competitors seeking freedom to achieve vs noncompetitors wanting to be taken care of by others. To each their own. Everyone should do what they think best suits them.

Regardless of where someone chooses to live, it still remains a fact that Free Enterprise and Capitalism provide the greatest opportunity for achievement, freedom, liberty, private property ownership and individual success. Anyone who thinks they're escaping capitalism to socialism for more freedom is seriously deluded and deceiving themselves.
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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Doodoo » October 8, 2019, 11:20 am

"it still remains a fact that Free Enterprise and Capitalism provide the greatest opportunity for achievement, freedom, liberty, private property ownership and individual success. Anyone who thinks they're escaping capitalism to socialism for more freedom is seriously deluded and deceiving themselves."

It remains an opinion not a fact as 142,000 seemed to disagree more than zero

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by TJ » October 8, 2019, 11:49 am

"142,500 Americans migrating to Russia represents 0.044% of the US population. Less than 1/22 of a PERCENT. It's roughly the size of the city of Mesquite, Texas."

IMO some of those immigrants have used the internet to assess the vast quantities of beautiful women living in Russia (many desperate and in search of a comfortable life). I do not blame then for their rush to immigrate. Wish them success and a happy life. Not for me though.

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by TJ » October 9, 2019, 5:21 am

Meanwhile it may instructive to examine and assess the latest and greatest socialist utopia, Venezuela. And yes; it is going as expected.
Venez.png

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Lone Star » October 9, 2019, 7:11 am

TJ wrote:
October 9, 2019, 5:21 am
Meanwhile it may instructive to examine and assess the latest and greatest socialist utopia, Venezuela. And yes; it is going as expected.
For those young whippersnappers who weren't around when the Berlin Wall came down, Venezuela is an even better example of Socialism Fail.

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Re: Capitalism vs Socialism

Post by Lone Star » October 9, 2019, 7:17 am

.

Anyone migrating to any socialist-leaning country anywhere does not change the composition of capitalism or socialism. Are they capitalists migrating or are they socialists migrating? No evidence of either, and has no effect on capitalism vs socialism. Are they being influenced by push factors or pull factors? Evidence of either doesn't matter. It has no effect on capitalism vs socialism. Are they both pushed AND pulled? No one knows, and it doesn't matter. It has no effect on capitalism vs socialism.

All that is known is that someone chose to live somewhere else. That choice has absolutely no effect on the freedom afforded by capitalism for the millions who remain in capitalist countries or the restrictions experienced by those in socialist countries. The characteristics of the two economic systems do not change because of a migration pattern.

Capitalism and socialism are what they are no matter where people choose to live. Residency does not change either economic system. The question isn't centered on a "popular" choice. It's centered on Freedom and Individual Liberty.
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