To die in Thailand?

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LoneTraveler
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by LoneTraveler » February 10, 2018, 4:48 pm

christian_2013 wrote:
February 9, 2018, 6:23 pm
LoneTraveler wrote:
February 9, 2018, 1:58 pm
I gave it some thought about returning to the US if I had the heads up about the dying process however, my Thai wife insists I be cremated in the village Buddhists Temple, I relinquished. My concern is the cost of the whole affair. I told her I want everything done in 1 day, barbecue and all. I do not want her to spend such a large amount just to satisfy her relatives and friends, so they can eat and get drunk and keep the entire village from sleeping for 3 or 4 days. She says she has to spend at least 100000 Baht but more than likely, a lot more. Therefore, my wishes for her future and well being in monetary terms, will be diminished to save face. Therefore, a portion of the the money designated for her future well-being, will be spent within 2 or 3 days (instead of at least 2 years,) on tradition. However, I do understand how important this event is to her future standing among family and friends. I do not want her to be shamed as being cheap by Thai standards.

And what really bothers me is there are only certains days within a week where you can proceed to the temple. So if you die on a Saturday, they may not do the cremation until tuesday. So this gives the family and friends and alerts anyone who hears music that the party is ongoing until your remains are placed in the back of a pick-up truck and the funeral procession takes place. Hopefully, (determined by my believes about the great beyond) I won't have to listen to that dreadful music while laying in my refrigerated lodging for 2 to 4 days.
LoneTraveler I can understand your concerns and your love for your wife and the future monetary wellbeing of your wife when you are no longer around.
But maybe you are not understanding her culture and how they look at death, which is quite different to how we are bought up to fear death, they don't. From my understanding of the Thai funerals I have been to unlike western funerals being a pretty morbid experience, the Thai funeral is a celebration of one's life not death and the whole experience of the Buddhist culture to me is one of merit making to get to the next life, regardless of what we might think, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, how your life is celebrated when you pass by your wife has very little to do with you and putting a monetary value on it as often men do could be insulting to her as she would like to celebrate your life culturally on how she was bought up in her faith from birth.
Personally I would not worry about the monetary side of things, money is not a celebration of one's life, it's only a piece of paper that burns quicker than you will at the Temple. And the music how can you awaken the spirits to guide you to the next life, maybe thats why they play that music so the spirits are awakened and they say jobs on we need to help LoneTraveler through the door. I am not religious but if that is ones's faith then who am my to question it.
Myself if my wife wants to blow money on celebrating my life then so be it, that will mean no change from when I was in the land of the living. :shock:
My point is that I prefer she use the money for monthly bills and food for family and medical and dental expenses. I have been giving her a monthly sum to take care of all this over the past ten years. I have built a house for us and our daughter and one for her parents on the same property. I want her to be able to pay the bills and not have to eat dirt or the dreadful chickens, rats and snakes, that roam the property. She has a car and a new motorbike which I hope she can maintain and not have to sell because she went beyond the amount I put in Bank for cremation party.

I agree with most of what you said here but I don't agree with the money be damned because of her Buddhist believes. And I know she has strong feelings about her Buddhist beliefs but it will not pay the bills, feed the family or pay for health and dental. She is now undergoing expensive dental care, I would hate to see this end.

And as another member stated here, I too have a son buried in a plot I purchased for my family back in the US and it would be a comfort to be with him but my Thai wife takes precedence at this point in my life. I just want her to be able to afford her current lifestyle for at least 3 years. Then she can take her time finding a job that will at least help her pay the bills, or a new boyfriend or husband who will carry on for her. She just turned 32 and we have a 10 year old daughter. She cannot understand why I am so concerned about her future. Her response is mia pen ria. I guess I will have to live with that, perhaps I am just paranoid. Who knows I may live for another 20 to 30 years which will make me a very very old man.

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fatbob
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by fatbob » February 10, 2018, 5:34 pm

LoneTraveler wrote:
February 10, 2018, 4:48 pm
christian_2013 wrote:
February 9, 2018, 6:23 pm
LoneTraveler wrote:
February 9, 2018, 1:58 pm
I gave it some thought about returning to the US if I had the heads up about the dying process however, my Thai wife insists I be cremated in the village Buddhists Temple, I relinquished. My concern is the cost of the whole affair. I told her I want everything done in 1 day, barbecue and all. I do not want her to spend such a large amount just to satisfy her relatives and friends, so they can eat and get drunk and keep the entire village from sleeping for 3 or 4 days. She says she has to spend at least 100000 Baht but more than likely, a lot more. Therefore, my wishes for her future and well being in monetary terms, will be diminished to save face. Therefore, a portion of the the money designated for her future well-being, will be spent within 2 or 3 days (instead of at least 2 years,) on tradition. However, I do understand how important this event is to her future standing among family and friends. I do not want her to be shamed as being cheap by Thai standards.

And what really bothers me is there are only certains days within a week where you can proceed to the temple. So if you die on a Saturday, they may not do the cremation until tuesday. So this gives the family and friends and alerts anyone who hears music that the party is ongoing until your remains are placed in the back of a pick-up truck and the funeral procession takes place. Hopefully, (determined by my believes about the great beyond) I won't have to listen to that dreadful music while laying in my refrigerated lodging for 2 to 4 days.
LoneTraveler I can understand your concerns and your love for your wife and the future monetary wellbeing of your wife when you are no longer around.
But maybe you are not understanding her culture and how they look at death, which is quite different to how we are bought up to fear death, they don't. From my understanding of the Thai funerals I have been to unlike western funerals being a pretty morbid experience, the Thai funeral is a celebration of one's life not death and the whole experience of the Buddhist culture to me is one of merit making to get to the next life, regardless of what we might think, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, how your life is celebrated when you pass by your wife has very little to do with you and putting a monetary value on it as often men do could be insulting to her as she would like to celebrate your life culturally on how she was bought up in her faith from birth.
Personally I would not worry about the monetary side of things, money is not a celebration of one's life, it's only a piece of paper that burns quicker than you will at the Temple. And the music how can you awaken the spirits to guide you to the next life, maybe thats why they play that music so the spirits are awakened and they say jobs on we need to help LoneTraveler through the door. I am not religious but if that is ones's faith then who am my to question it.
Myself if my wife wants to blow money on celebrating my life then so be it, that will mean no change from when I was in the land of the living. :shock:
My point is that I prefer she use the money for monthly bills and food for family and medical and dental expenses. I have been giving her a monthly sum to take care of all this over the past ten years. I have built a house for us and our daughter and one for her parents on the same property. I want her to be able to pay the bills and not have to eat dirt or the dreadful chickens, rats and snakes, that roam the property. She has a car and a new motorbike which I hope she can maintain and not have to sell because she went beyond the amount I put in Bank for cremation party.

I agree with most of what you said here but I don't agree with the money be damned because of her Buddhist believes. And I know she has strong feelings about her Buddhist beliefs but it will not pay the bills, feed the family or pay for health and dental. She is now undergoing expensive dental care, I would hate to see this end.

And as another member stated here, I too have a son buried in a plot I purchased for my family back in the US and it would be a comfort to be with him but my Thai wife takes precedence at this point in my life. I just want her to be able to afford her current lifestyle for at least 3 years. Then she can take her time finding a job that will at least help her pay the bills, or a new boyfriend or husband who will carry on for her. She just turned 32 and we have a 10 year old daughter. She cannot understand why I am so concerned about her future. Her response is mia pen ria. I guess I will have to live with that, perhaps I am just paranoid. Who knows I may live for another 20 to 30 years which will make me a very very old man.

F me, when your dead your dead, what will be will be, what a laugh...

glalt
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by glalt » February 10, 2018, 7:24 pm

I live here and I'll die here. I told my wife that when I go, I don't want any fuss and no party. I was told to just shut my mouth because she didn't want to talk about it. I told her that I'd like my ashes in the Gulf of Thailand. I told her to take then to my condo and flush them down the toilet and they would get there. She wasn't amused, she then told me that it was not up to me about a funeral. It is up to her. Actually I will be dead and I don't care one way or another.

Doodoo
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by Doodoo » February 10, 2018, 8:12 pm

Great idea Glalt
I had similar thoughts back home and asked my children to put me into Lake Huron via the Head, La Toilette, Lough etc.

Now I asked the TWF to just put me in anyone of my empty coffee jars I keep and place me in the living room on a shelf, so I could keep an eye on proceedings. Of course we all know the answer!!!!!

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parrot
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by parrot » February 10, 2018, 8:26 pm

Doodoo wrote:
February 10, 2018, 8:12 pm
Great idea Glalt
I had similar thoughts back home and asked my children to put me into Lake Huron via the Head, La Toilette, Lough etc.

Now I asked the TWF to just put me in anyone of my empty coffee jars I keep and place me in the living room on a shelf, so I could keep an eye on proceedings. Of course we all know the answer!!!!!
Years ago on a visit to the temple next to Ban Chiang museum, I noticed that the urns in the pillars surrounding the temple were identical. Nescafe Gold jars......Every one!

eagle
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by eagle » February 10, 2018, 8:45 pm

fatbob wrote:
February 9, 2018, 5:44 pm
I couldn't bear to have my ashes placed in a temple just in case, imagine spending eternity with a pack of pi--ed out lao khao heads,,,, first choice is to have my ashes scattered in the ocean, second is the Mekong.
In fact, I have been a part of some Thai funerals and while different, there is some common traditions. Not everyone get gun shots, but some do.

What happens to ashes should be cleared here. Next day, when ashes has cooled down, close relatives will come and try to find best bones for them to keep. Then second row will be bones to keep in the house of the passed. Third row will be temple and that, whatever, place bones will be stored with photo, text or nothing.

Then rest of the ashes and bones will be scattered to the nearest big water. Here in Udon Thani it will be Mekong River. If a good reason, maybe own bond or similar. Ocean is of course possible, but sea more common here in Thailand.

I do not mind my wife having some my teeths with her all the time, if she feels that it helps her. Also having a place beside my favourite Buddha statue at home is ok. We also did discuss this and agreed that Mekong River is the place and I know the exactt location. Still do not give google coordinates...

For me this is a little bit different. Over 30 years ago, somewhere near River Kwai, one Thai man said to me: "You came here to die". It was a joke that changed my life. Now I can answer to his question: "Yes".

I just hope that this project will be something like 40-50 years project, not 30+ 8)

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papafarang
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by papafarang » February 10, 2018, 10:13 pm

All that matters is who cries over you, burnt , buried. your gone. if some people are sad at your loss .. it's the best you can hope for. last year I was back in the uk. went to give some flowers at mums grave , derelict, forgotten .. sad. but I visited mum, dad, sister, and granddad. I was the only person that seemed to had for years . just a little sad
the world is not my home, I'm just a passenger

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maaka
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by maaka » February 12, 2018, 5:33 am

thanx guys for all the input..very interesting...
yes I guess I had this question in my head which formed re my late fathers location..He got scattered to the four winds, and so there was/ is place / headstone, where family/ grandkids can go to get a sense of belonging/home...I guess a concrete pillar in the cremation area / forest in our village would do for any that want to come looking afterward..maybe send some ashes back home as another location for everyone back downunder....hahaha ...american share my bones

glalt
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by glalt » February 12, 2018, 11:25 am

A friend of mine died December 22nd. After the cremation, the Thais insisted that his ashes be near a "BIG Water". As it turned out, a third of his ashes remained at the cremation temple. Another third went to a local temple near where he had lived and the last third was given to us group of farangs, against the wishes of the Thais.We were told that was not the custom of the Thai people. Our small group said that he was NOT Thai and we would have our own ceremony. We all met up on a mountain where we had spent a lot of time and drank many liters of beer. We scattered his ashes in the spot that had a beautiful view. We pasted his picture on a post and left a full beer and a cigarette on the top of the post. It was a cold wet day but we still drank a few beers before we said good bye. I think my friend would have approved of our little ceremony.

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parrot
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Re: To die in Thailand?

Post by parrot » February 12, 2018, 1:17 pm

glalt wrote:
February 12, 2018, 11:25 am
A friend of mine died December 22nd. After the cremation, the Thais insisted that his ashes be near a "BIG Water". As it turned out, a third of his ashes remained at the cremation temple. Another third went to a local temple near where he had lived and the last third was given to us group of farangs, against the wishes of the Thais.We were told that was not the custom of the Thai people. Our small group said that he was NOT Thai and we would have our own ceremony. We all met up on a mountain where we had spent a lot of time and drank many liters of beer. We scattered his ashes in the spot that had a beautiful view. We pasted his picture on a post and left a full beer and a cigarette on the top of the post. It was a cold wet day but we still drank a few beers before we said good bye. I think my friend would have approved of our little ceremony.
My idea of a perfect funeral.

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