While the tragic circumstances are not in anyway linked to E coli or other debilitating illnesses it would appear, judging by the latest post from the family, we should all be very aware that standards of health cleanliness in Thai kitchens are not high. It has become apparent to me anyway that in some places the food is prepared not only with an almost lack of hygiene but in a room so small that cross infection of bugs seems the norm.
While I am careful of where and what I eat, some throw caution to the wind and often the following morning have to deal with the fallout .
I recently had a long conversation with a friend who had just returned from Hong Kong on a trip about Kitchen Hygiene, he was surprised and amazed at the high standards, which he emphasised were NOT enforced at all in Thailand.
So although I may have hije\acked this thread it is fitting that as report was initially linked to possible food poisoning which has been debunked, it is wise to warn others of the dangers of eating in places where although it might look good it is not always good for your system.
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
I'm currently in Texas....just finished reading an article about 20 restaurants in the city here that failed recent inspections. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say very few, if any, restaurants in Udon would pass a Texas restaurant inspection. For starters.....dishes not washed in hot enough water, 130 degrees F......employees handling food with bare hands.....refrigerator not at proper cooling temperature......food items in refrigerator not properly covered and marked with date......glassware stored on dusty shelves.....knife used to cut limes not properly stored after each cutting.....employee stored personal drink above food prep area.....employees not using hair restraints......rodent droppings, flies........no hot water at hand sink..... just for starters. It's a wonder anyone who consumes food in Thailand is alive........but live they do.
And.......God forbid an inspector would visit one of the local markets with gutted chicken sitting out in the open.....eggs unrefrigerated.....and something-on-a-hoof hanging from a hook ready for sale, also unrefrigerated.
You can pimp up a customer serving area all you like......but it's what's behind the kitchen door (if there is one) that counts.
Thailand.......great food, but not for those with weak stomachs or western cleanliness fetishes.
Ten or so years ago, I took my visiting brother to one of my favorite restaurants on Phosri Rd.......a place that's been in business for 60 or so years......crab fried rice, crab wonton soup, duck, satay. While we were eating, a worker scurried to the back of the eating area and stomped a sizable rat with his foot. He was obviously skilled at this task. The rat was swept up and dumped into a container and the worker returned to fixing wonton soup.
All in a day's work in a Thai restaurant.
And.......God forbid an inspector would visit one of the local markets with gutted chicken sitting out in the open.....eggs unrefrigerated.....and something-on-a-hoof hanging from a hook ready for sale, also unrefrigerated.
You can pimp up a customer serving area all you like......but it's what's behind the kitchen door (if there is one) that counts.
Thailand.......great food, but not for those with weak stomachs or western cleanliness fetishes.
Ten or so years ago, I took my visiting brother to one of my favorite restaurants on Phosri Rd.......a place that's been in business for 60 or so years......crab fried rice, crab wonton soup, duck, satay. While we were eating, a worker scurried to the back of the eating area and stomped a sizable rat with his foot. He was obviously skilled at this task. The rat was swept up and dumped into a container and the worker returned to fixing wonton soup.
All in a day's work in a Thai restaurant.
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
Never had a food poisoning problem here, some places just too clean and no one builds up any natural immunity, nanny states.
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
I have some sympathy for the nanny state argument. People often have pretty slack hygiene standards at home and by and large get away with that.
Lock 'em up - Eastman, Giuliani, Senator Graham, Meadows and Trump
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Barney
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Restaurant....cleanliness standards
GT exactly correct, the best of restaurants and cafes both east and west have vermin problems and lack of control methods. If they did the right thing there would be no need for inspectors?GT93 wrote:I have some sympathy for the nanny state argument. People often have pretty slack hygiene standards at home and by and large get away with that.
There was a nice looking rat running around the food hall stands in Central on my last visit, he must have been a veteran as he didn't care about crowds, it was busy pre lunch time. Ran into a food cubicle. Having been in SE Asia for some time now like others you do lose the shock value of seeing rats after a while.
But there is no excuse for any establishment, any where not to have hygiene standards. Its part of having a business.
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randerson79
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Restaurant....cleanliness standards
I only eat at restaurants that display this sign. It's issued by the Thailand government, after their thorough inspection. 
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Restaurant....cleanliness standards
But its not all bad news.....next time you are camped outside the khazi for 3 days,it might just be beneficial ! 
Diarrhea bug may prevent cancer
Study: Bacterial toxin inhibits growth of malignant cells
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call it Montezuma’s Revenge, traveler’s trot or simply a nuisance, diarrhea may do at least one good deed by protecting people against colon cancer, researchers have reported.
They said their findings offer one possible explanation for why people in poorer countries seem less prone to colon cancer, the fourth leading cause of cancer in the world and the third biggest cause of cancer deaths in the United States.
The study, published in an issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, focuses on one of many bacteria that can cause diarrhea. Worldwide, diarrhea caused by a variety of microbes kills two million children a year, but adults develop a partial immunity.
The toxin produced by the bacteria — in this case toxic strains of the common Escherichia coli or E. coli bug — irritates the lining of the bowel but may also interact with cells in a way that prevents them from becoming cancerous, the researchers said.
Giovanni Pitari and colleagues at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia started their research after noting that while colon cancer is very common in the developed world, it is uncommon in developing countries.
“Over half a million patients suffer from colorectal cancer in industrialized nations, yet this disease exhibits a low incidence in underdeveloped countries,” Pitari and colleagues wrote in their report.
They compared the incidence of “traveler’s diarrhea” against that of colon cancer, and showed that in countries where “Delhi belly” is most common, including the Indian subcontinent, Africa and Mexico, colon cancer was increasingly less common.
Where colon cancer is highest — New Zealand, Australia, the United States and western Europe — traveler’s diarrhea is rare.
Pitari’s team analyzed the toxins produced by E. coli, first adding them to a dish full of dividing cancer cells. The cells, which like most cancer cells had been growing and dividing rapidly, slowed their pace to a crawl.
They tested the toxin’s precise action on cells and found it acted like guanylin and uroguanylin — two compounds that naturally limit the growth of colon cancer cells.
The finding not only helps explain why colon cancer is a disease of developed countries, but may offer new approaches to treating or preventing the disease, Pitari’s team said. Other approaches are known to help prevent colon cancer — including a diet rich in fruits and vegetables, quitting smoking and doing exercise.
Smoking can damage the DNA in cells, helping them become cancerous, while eating fruits and vegetables helps prevent damage to DNA from occurring in the first place.
Diarrhea bug may prevent cancer
Study: Bacterial toxin inhibits growth of malignant cells
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call it Montezuma’s Revenge, traveler’s trot or simply a nuisance, diarrhea may do at least one good deed by protecting people against colon cancer, researchers have reported.
They said their findings offer one possible explanation for why people in poorer countries seem less prone to colon cancer, the fourth leading cause of cancer in the world and the third biggest cause of cancer deaths in the United States.
The study, published in an issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, focuses on one of many bacteria that can cause diarrhea. Worldwide, diarrhea caused by a variety of microbes kills two million children a year, but adults develop a partial immunity.
The toxin produced by the bacteria — in this case toxic strains of the common Escherichia coli or E. coli bug — irritates the lining of the bowel but may also interact with cells in a way that prevents them from becoming cancerous, the researchers said.
Giovanni Pitari and colleagues at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia started their research after noting that while colon cancer is very common in the developed world, it is uncommon in developing countries.
“Over half a million patients suffer from colorectal cancer in industrialized nations, yet this disease exhibits a low incidence in underdeveloped countries,” Pitari and colleagues wrote in their report.
They compared the incidence of “traveler’s diarrhea” against that of colon cancer, and showed that in countries where “Delhi belly” is most common, including the Indian subcontinent, Africa and Mexico, colon cancer was increasingly less common.
Where colon cancer is highest — New Zealand, Australia, the United States and western Europe — traveler’s diarrhea is rare.
Pitari’s team analyzed the toxins produced by E. coli, first adding them to a dish full of dividing cancer cells. The cells, which like most cancer cells had been growing and dividing rapidly, slowed their pace to a crawl.
They tested the toxin’s precise action on cells and found it acted like guanylin and uroguanylin — two compounds that naturally limit the growth of colon cancer cells.
The finding not only helps explain why colon cancer is a disease of developed countries, but may offer new approaches to treating or preventing the disease, Pitari’s team said. Other approaches are known to help prevent colon cancer — including a diet rich in fruits and vegetables, quitting smoking and doing exercise.
Smoking can damage the DNA in cells, helping them become cancerous, while eating fruits and vegetables helps prevent damage to DNA from occurring in the first place.
Just when I thought our chance had passed,you go and save the best for last.
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Laan Yaa Mo
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Restaurant....cleanliness standards
Khun Zidane, thanks for the bit of information whilst I was chomping down on my breakfast. The tiny details of bacteria doing their job, so to speak, was fascinating.
One point I might mention is that about fruit. I love to eat it, but it is deadly for diabetics. With the exception of dragon fruit, and some berries, fruit is full of sugar that poses too many dangers.
One point I might mention is that about fruit. I love to eat it, but it is deadly for diabetics. With the exception of dragon fruit, and some berries, fruit is full of sugar that poses too many dangers.
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
The subject of food which causes you to spend time in the toilet is a fascinating subject, and although I can see the benefits of such an illness, personally I'd miss out on that. It might be interesting to note however that Liver Fluke cancer is at its highest in SE Asia . So although an attack of Delhi belly might be good for slowing down the nasty cells , once the Big C has got into other organs no amount of Delhi belly would help that.
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
You need to do some reading about fruit and diabetes,you can eat alot more than just dragon fruit and berries .Laan Yaa Mo wrote:Khun Zidane, thanks for the bit of information whilst I was chomping down on my breakfast. The tiny details of bacteria doing their job, so to speak, was fascinating.
One point I might mention is that about fruit. I love to eat it, but it is deadly for diabetics. With the exception of dragon fruit, and some berries, fruit is full of sugar that poses too many dangers.
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
Exactly - as long as you monitor and control it properly, eating most Fruit is not a problem.GARYZX6R wrote:You need to do some reading about fruit and diabetes,you can eat a lot more than just dragon fruit and berries .Laan Yaa Mo wrote:Khun Zidane, thanks for the bit of information whilst I was chomping down on my breakfast. The tiny details of bacteria doing their job, so to speak, was fascinating.
One point I might mention is that about fruit. I love to eat it, but it is deadly for diabetics. With the exception of dragon fruit, and some berries, fruit is full of sugar that poses too many dangers.
Here's tae us, wha's like us, damn few, and they're a' deid. Mair's the pity!
Alba gu bràth
Since 1872 Semper Paratus. Neque Deditionem
Alba gu bràth
Since 1872 Semper Paratus. Neque Deditionem
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
Here's tae us, wha's like us, damn few, and they're a' deid. Mair's the pity!
Alba gu bràth
Since 1872 Semper Paratus. Neque Deditionem
Alba gu bràth
Since 1872 Semper Paratus. Neque Deditionem
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Laan Yaa Mo
- udonmap.com
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Restaurant....cleanliness standards
I have done reading pro and con. My doctor notes that my blood sugar level goes sky high after I eat pineapple, oranges, tangerines, apples et al. Last year, when I was in Laos, papaya was not to bad for me, and dragon fruit was wonderful regarding my blood sugar level. In Canada, I find blueberries and raspberries are all I can eat without worrying about my readings going above 10. Maybe it's an individual tolerance.GARYZX6R wrote:You need to do some reading about fruit and diabetes,you can eat alot more than just dragon fruit and berries .
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
randerson79 wrote:I only eat at restaurants that display this sign. It's issued by the Thailand government, after their thorough inspection.
Ah the inspection only once at the beginning ,seen some very old signs on some restaurants,they should tel the local government to get a brand new one delivered for free
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
Most of those good food signs are as old as often the people working the stalls/ restaurants.
They're out of date and NOT regularly inspected.
They're out of date and NOT regularly inspected.
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wazza
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Restaurant....cleanliness standards
The other thing to remember in all this , is the good bacteria you have in your " GIT " called Normal flora , changing locations, cities , countries etc will also mean your body will change the Normal flora associated with that location, episodes of diahorrea in the first 24 hours and then ok.
Most of the comments here are on observations at the point of sale, supply chain issues, refrigeration of products , salad bars .the health and vaccination status of the food handlers, vermin / foreign debris at the packaging stage, commericial sabotage ( posts online with no accountability to deliberate contamination ) , temperatures at which the food is cooked at and then manner of how its served and kept after if reused. ( Rice and Listeria is a good example ) people blame Som Yum for their food poisoning, but Im sure the sticky rice is also a contributing factor, having been stored at temperatures of 30-40 C allowing the spores in the rice to grow.
The Food Safety industry has what it calls HACCP ( Hazard Analysis Critical Control Points ) where the food chain process has high potential to breakdown , based on various incidents and lessons learnt. You will see HACCP signage on Thai KFC , Tesco , Big C stores and MK Suki , I think Oishi Restaurents also have them as well ??? their food source / chain controlled from a central distribution centre ensuring a higher standard of food for point of sale. Remember the floods in BKK a few years ago and these places suffered with fresh products , as the roads were blocked to North Eastern Thailand etc.
I qualified in Food Safety level 4 in the UK, a few years ago and its a very detailed course
This is the level 2 course which all food handlers are required to pass in the UK, be fantasic if all Expat food providers in Udon could have that and pass onto the local staff the benefits. ( very long shot i know )
http://www.food-safety.org.uk/?gclid=CL ... wgodqScAeA
Level 4 for Managers, which would be the base line qualifications for Food Inspectors / Managers
http://www.highfield.co.uk/products/ite ... od-safety/
Being a cynic as well I would say the Thai regulatory system could be open to corruption and under reporting by local authorities.
Most of the comments here are on observations at the point of sale, supply chain issues, refrigeration of products , salad bars .the health and vaccination status of the food handlers, vermin / foreign debris at the packaging stage, commericial sabotage ( posts online with no accountability to deliberate contamination ) , temperatures at which the food is cooked at and then manner of how its served and kept after if reused. ( Rice and Listeria is a good example ) people blame Som Yum for their food poisoning, but Im sure the sticky rice is also a contributing factor, having been stored at temperatures of 30-40 C allowing the spores in the rice to grow.
The Food Safety industry has what it calls HACCP ( Hazard Analysis Critical Control Points ) where the food chain process has high potential to breakdown , based on various incidents and lessons learnt. You will see HACCP signage on Thai KFC , Tesco , Big C stores and MK Suki , I think Oishi Restaurents also have them as well ??? their food source / chain controlled from a central distribution centre ensuring a higher standard of food for point of sale. Remember the floods in BKK a few years ago and these places suffered with fresh products , as the roads were blocked to North Eastern Thailand etc.
I qualified in Food Safety level 4 in the UK, a few years ago and its a very detailed course
This is the level 2 course which all food handlers are required to pass in the UK, be fantasic if all Expat food providers in Udon could have that and pass onto the local staff the benefits. ( very long shot i know )
http://www.food-safety.org.uk/?gclid=CL ... wgodqScAeA
Level 4 for Managers, which would be the base line qualifications for Food Inspectors / Managers
http://www.highfield.co.uk/products/ite ... od-safety/
Being a cynic as well I would say the Thai regulatory system could be open to corruption and under reporting by local authorities.
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
The Results Are In! The Countries Where You’re Most Likely to Get Food Poisoning Are ...
(perhaps)
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-result ... 73957.html
(perhaps)
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/the-result ... 73957.html
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
Posting on here as the original title was 'Restaurant cleanliness standards: Society and Culture'.
I was sitting in the food hall at Big C with 'Socksy' junior this morning having a bit of 'nosebag' (quite appropriate really) when she came up with an intriguing question which I couldn't answer.
"Daddy, why do Thai's cover their mouth with one hand while they are using a toothpick, but when they eat, they eat like Water Buffalo and you can see all the food in their mouth?
I'm still baffled so answers on a postcard pleased.
I was sitting in the food hall at Big C with 'Socksy' junior this morning having a bit of 'nosebag' (quite appropriate really) when she came up with an intriguing question which I couldn't answer.
"Daddy, why do Thai's cover their mouth with one hand while they are using a toothpick, but when they eat, they eat like Water Buffalo and you can see all the food in their mouth?
I'm still baffled so answers on a postcard pleased.
Here's tae us, wha's like us, damn few, and they're a' deid. Mair's the pity!
Alba gu bràth
Since 1872 Semper Paratus. Neque Deditionem
Alba gu bràth
Since 1872 Semper Paratus. Neque Deditionem
Restaurant....cleanliness standards
I certainly think you can build up a tolerance to food bugs. I travel a lot with work (most of SE Asia, China, India and Africa). Its about 3 years since I last had a bad stomach, and that was after eating a boiled egg from a street vendor in Cambodia (it tasted a bit dodgy when I ate it but ignored the warning sign, so partly my own fault).
On my last trip to India I went with a colleague who doesn't travel much. We ate the same food but he was ill for almost two weeks afterwards whereas I was fine.
Seen rats in restaurants too many times to mention - its more alarming when you see the staff ignoring them.
I am quite fond of a nice spicy Somtam (especially 'Korat style' - pla ra sauce a toasted peanuts, but minus the crab). I know you can pick up liver flukes from the pla ra, so always take a yearly dose of the antiparasitic to be on the safe side..
On my last trip to India I went with a colleague who doesn't travel much. We ate the same food but he was ill for almost two weeks afterwards whereas I was fine.
Seen rats in restaurants too many times to mention - its more alarming when you see the staff ignoring them.
I am quite fond of a nice spicy Somtam (especially 'Korat style' - pla ra sauce a toasted peanuts, but minus the crab). I know you can pick up liver flukes from the pla ra, so always take a yearly dose of the antiparasitic to be on the safe side..