Expired Thai Passport

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bluejets
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Expired Thai Passport

Post by bluejets » May 17, 2022, 7:15 am

Asked over at another forum but no one could actually point to a definite immigration rule.
There may not be one, hard to say but need something concrete to go by, not just hear say.

Wife is Thai and has Aus ciitzenship and Aus passport.
She can travel on that out of and into Australia no problem.
According to all I can find online, dual nationality for Thai/Aussie is fine.

She also has a current Thai ID card however her Thai passport expired .... 19 May 2016 to 18 May 2021.
Covid threw a spanner in the works for our original travel plans for each year and subsequent "on time" passport renewal.
Obviously she wants to enter Thailand on her expired Thai passport.

Reason is obvious, if she uses Aus passport to enter Thailand, I imagine she would need tourist visa and covid insurance for a 60 day stay in her own country.
Yes, she could enter visa exempt and apply for extension but that gets to be more work.

Last thing we need is to arrive at immigration in Suvarnabhumi without any "tourist visa or covid insurance" and be told her expired Thai passport is unacceptable for entry to Thailand.

Dropped an email explaining situation to Canberra Consulate but they just said, check airline if she can travel on the passport. Totally not the issue, totally misunderstood. Sent it back explaining that but reply not forthcoming as yet.

Yes, possible to get a new passport in Canberra but the procedure requires her to travel and do in person there. Same for any other related document such as emergency passport.
Cost is well over AUD$1000.00 for any airline travel and overnight accomodation so really out of the question.

Saw reference to Thailand Consulate in Bangkok [email protected] and a response email came back from Siam Legal saying they would contact in a few days. I thought it was a Thai Government immigration contact.

Bit lost at present on where to turn next, hence a call for any government link that might provide the assurance we need.
At least a bit of time up our sleeve as planning on August for return.
Cheers



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tamada
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by tamada » May 17, 2022, 9:23 am

Sounds like the Consulate in Canberra is suffering from PELS (post extended lock-down syndrome). AFAIK an expired passport, any nation's expired passport, is valid for travel and entry to the country that issued that passport. If Thailand is suddenly bucking this trend, it would be a first. Your wife has a 100% valid travel document in her Australian passport, the Thai one is only needed to re-enter her homeland. There's no way a Thai Immigration officer is going to deny entry to a Thai citizen at BKK, expired Thai passport or otherwise.

FWIW, what would be her planned itinerary and what airlines would she be using? Easier to fire off a query to the airlines(s) involved while you are waiting for answers from clueless government flunkies.
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by bluejets » May 17, 2022, 9:35 am

OK...thanks Tam..... planning for return around August 2022 and would like to stay for up to 60 days this time, given last trip was May 2019.
Usual for us to come over each year.
So covid insurance and tourist visa for me as well as other travel insurance...no worries there.

Used to travel Thai Airways but found Emirates (Qantas) from Aus a tad over $1000 return even with a flight from Brisbane to Sydney included.

So plan was Tilt Train Bundy to Brisbane, airtrain to Airport, flight to Sydney with an overnight stop at an airport hotel there, then pick up the flight to Bkk next morning around 10.

I'll drop a line to Emerates here and see what they say as well.
Thanks again....cheers

Hehehe...well that drew a blank response....no email address for Emirates so gave them a call in Melbourne.
No grinding of gears, nothing......some foreign female voice that kept going back to "must have valid passport to travel" to which I would say (3 times) yes, she has valid passport to travel, travel is not the issue.....
no idea basically...cheers :D

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Barney
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by Barney » May 17, 2022, 10:37 am

Bluejets

Try contacting the Thai consulate in Sydney and explain your situation.
May be a bit closer than Canberra.
Contact details are on their website.
They may be sympathetic for an expired passport to the fact you have been under Covid travel restrictions.


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jackspratt
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by jackspratt » May 17, 2022, 11:09 am

There is strong anecdotal evidence on Thai Visa that supports what tam is saying ie there should be no problems for a Thai citizen to enter Thailand on an expired Thai passport.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1213239-can- ... -passport/

https://aseannow.com/topic/1232147-expi ... -thailand/

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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by bluejets » May 17, 2022, 12:42 pm

Canberra Thai Consulate response was .....

"In this regard the decision will be under immigration officer. We cannot guarantee on that if she can be able to to entry like that. " :D ....thought if they can't , who can but there ya go.

I have a feeling the consulates and Thai Immigration are separate government bodies.

So I thought why not do the whole rounds and try Sydney Thai Consulate....
No word yet.

Did one to immigration in Bkk too....
[email protected] on the off chance....have to get to the end of this piece of string sooner or later... :lol:

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jackspratt
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by jackspratt » May 17, 2022, 12:57 pm

bluejets wrote:
May 17, 2022, 12:42 pm

I have a feeling the consulates and Thai Immigration are separate government bodies.
Correct - Consulates come under the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Immigration are part of the Royal Thai Police.

That is part of the reason that a visa issued by a Thai Consul or Embassy doesn't guarantee entry when you get to Thailand.

It is similar to Australia - Embassies & Consulates part of Dept of Foreign Affairs, and Immigration part of Homeland Security.

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parrot
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by parrot » May 17, 2022, 2:40 pm

While marooned in the US back in 2020, my wife applied for COE on her US passport. Couldn't do it as I was returning on a US passport married to a Thai. Her Thai passport was expired and the Thai Embassy told her she could not return using the expired passport. The remedy....back then.....was for her to obtain a Certificate of Identity from the DC consulate. When we had to (again) cancel our return, the consulate issued her a temporary one year passport. Lots of paperwork.
Again, this was back in the day of strict COE policy. I'd hope you get clear guidance from the consulate before traveling.........just to make sure there's not a hiccup along the way.

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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by bluejets » May 17, 2022, 2:42 pm

mmm...ok.
Well I'll see what tomorrow brings.

Thought I might get her the covid insurance as that is not such a hastle, do the Thai Pass if that's still going when we come, and then let her rock up to immigration, hand over Expired Thai passport and current ID Card.

If rejected then. she could still come in as Aussie with her current Aus Passport (covid insurance ..yes....Thai Pass..yes)
and get in as Aussie on 30 day visa exempt.
Get her new Thai passport and perhaps sort out the rest at an immigration office.(extra 30 days etc.)

On leaving at the 60 day mark or a bit less (my tourist visa would expire then) hand over both new Thai and current Aus passport at checkin....No..?

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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by bluejets » May 17, 2022, 2:47 pm

parrot wrote:
May 17, 2022, 2:40 pm
The remedy....back then.....was for her to obtain a Certificate of Identity from the DC consulate.
Yes, similar here although, same as for getting her a new passport, you have to go to Canberra Consulate in person and the cost of flights,time and accomodation put it in the crazy basket.

Nonstop drive: 905 miles or 1456 km

Driving time: 16 hours, 15 minutes

and that's one way constant without a break..... :shock:

And we are only half way up the east coast.... :lol:

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by sometimewoodworker » May 18, 2022, 9:25 am

It’s well established that a Thai citizen can enter Thailand on an expired Thai passport.

It is also well established that you should show the checkin staff both a valid non Thai passport and an expired Thai passport the expired Thai passport guarantees entry to Thailand (probably by the time you intend to fly there will be no requirement for a Thai to have either a TP or insurance) there are currently some requirements for Thai citizens so those must be in place

Only The valid passport is shown to outbound immigration in the country you are leaving.
Only the expired Thai passport is shown to Thai immigration police (an ID card may be needed) Thai immigration can not refuse entry to a Thai citizen

Some countries will refuse exit if you only have an expired passport (I know for sure that Japan will not allow exit with only an expired passport, a friend tried, Thai airways accepted her and let her checkin, Japanese immigration refused to allow her to exit Japan )

If you only have an expired passport and the country will let you exit probably your only choice is Thai airways (they have accepted expired Thai passport holders) certainly your only option is a direct flight as only Thailand will permit you to enter on an expired Thai passport.

The airline is responsible for ensuring that anyone landing in a country is not breaking immigration rules. So if you don’t have a direct flight you do not have permission for non direct flights if you only have an expired passport. Just because you don’t pass immigration doesn’t mean you are free to land in transit. The airport, airside secure area has rather different rules but it is still governed by the vast majority of the laws of the country you are in. (An example would be that though a substance may be legal from your origin airport and legal in your destination airport if illegal in your transit country you will probably be arrested if it is discovered)

I suspect that even boarding a flight that later stops in the same country before flying directly to Thailand would be problematic without a valid passport.

You will probably find that similar rules apply to other nationalities certainly the U.K. has generally similar rules though BA is the airline
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deankham
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by deankham » May 18, 2022, 2:02 pm

bluejets wrote:
May 17, 2022, 2:42 pm
mmm...ok.
Well I'll see what tomorrow brings.

Thought I might get her the covid insurance as that is not such a hastle, do the Thai Pass if that's still going when we come, and then let her rock up to immigration, hand over Expired Thai passport and current ID Card.

If rejected then. she could still come in as Aussie with her current Aus Passport (covid insurance ..yes....Thai Pass..yes)
and get in as Aussie on 30 day visa exempt.
Get her new Thai passport and perhaps sort out the rest at an immigration office.(extra 30 days etc.)

On leaving at the 60 day mark or a bit less (my tourist visa would expire then) hand over both new Thai and current Aus passport at checkin....No..?
Not sure if useful information or not but we have returned to thailand twice this year using the Thai Pass route (myself using UK passport and my wife and daughter both using their Thai passports).

When you apply for the Thai Pass it is a different application if your applying as a foreign visitor or a Thai national. When you apply for the Thai Citizen you have to upload their passport BUT can also include their Thai National ID Card. There is no requirement to take out or upload insurance for the Thai national.

Both times when we have departed my country (Qatar) at check in they have asked to see the Insurance. I show them my insurance and explain Thai nationals do not need insurance. First time the person at check in asked the supervisor who confirmed this was correct. Second time at check in they did not even want to see the insurance just asked, do you have it. When arriving into thailand they have never checked the insurance as this was already checked as part of the Thai Pass application for me.

Good luck.

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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by sometimewoodworker » May 18, 2022, 5:08 pm

deankham wrote:
May 18, 2022, 2:02 pm

When you apply for the Thai Pass it is a different application if your applying as a foreign visitor or a Thai national. When you apply for the Thai Citizen you have to upload their passport BUT can also include their Thai National ID Card. There is no requirement to take out or upload insurance for the Thai national.
AFIR there was never a requirement for Thai nationals travelling on a Thai passport to have insurance since they are all covered by the Thai health system.

The only possible need for insurance would be a Thai national who is travelling on a foreign passport, as they then have the same entry conditions as other foreign entrants, though even then they could argue that it’s not required as the would still be entitled to Thai health care.

This is where the answers get into a grey area if the Thai national Thai Pass requirement is for a Thai passport
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deankham
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by deankham » May 18, 2022, 7:20 pm

^ I really don't know the reality of the situation / rules, but just continuing this discussion as might be useful for the OP or someone else.

I'll try and attach couple screen shots from the Thai Pass registration pages.

It clearly says that insurance is not required for a thai national / foreigner residents in thailand. No mention of needing a valid thai passport to be exempt from the insurance requirement.

Also when applying for Thai Pass as a Thai National it does not suggest you need a Thai passport, only a passport. However this could just be because they keep the form the same for Thais and non-Thai's? It is just an assumption which would need to be checked.

I was going to suggest you apply for Thai pass now using the expired Thai passport and see what happens although you can only do this maximum of 2 months in advance.
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sometimewoodworker
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Re: Expired Thai Passport

Post by sometimewoodworker » May 18, 2022, 8:55 pm

deankham wrote:
May 18, 2022, 7:20 pm
^ I really don't know the reality of the situation / rules, but just continuing this discussion as might be useful for the OP or someone else.

I'll try and attach couple screen shots from the Thai Pass registration pages.

It clearly says that insurance is not required for a thai national / foreigner residents in thailand. No mention of needing a valid thai passport to be exempt from the insurance requirement.

Also when applying for Thai Pass as a Thai National it does not suggest you need a Thai passport, only a passport. However this could just be because they keep the form the same for Thais and non-Thai's? It is just an assumption which would need to be checked.

I was going to suggest you apply for Thai pass now using the expired Thai passport and see what happens although you can only do this maximum of 2 months in advance.
It’s almost certain that the exemption for foreign residents in Thailand applies only to those with PR

I think it unlikely that they would specifically mention that the passport must be in date (I think that in general it’s assumed that the passport is in date unless you specifically say it’s expired) and since foreign residents in Thailand are included it would not specify a Thai passport or then that would exclude them.

The exemption from insurance would be because both Thais and foreign residents in Thailand are able to use the Thai healthcare system (I assume that foreign residents in Thailand are able, I don’t know, there are not many on the forums that are obvious)

A Thai with an ID card can use the healthcare system and immigration status is irrelevant.

The grey area is a Thai without a valid Thai passport.
Then the question is the Thai Pass requirement.
And there will be so few in that category travelling that it’s unlikely to be published. The only way to know is ask someone who has got a Thai Pass with an expired Thai passport.

EDIT from June 1st the Thai pass is not required for Thai citizens. This makes the whole discussion on Thai passports expired or not purely academic.
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