Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

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AlexO
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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by AlexO » June 11, 2022, 8:59 am

tamada wrote:
June 11, 2022, 8:12 am
AlexO wrote:
June 11, 2022, 7:57 am
stattointhailand wrote:
June 10, 2022, 8:17 pm
What I find amazing is the sheer cheek of the PGA. All the years they were poaching the best European players away from the European Tour to go play in their MegaBux Tour, that was just a case of well the players want to play on our tour because its the best and most lucrative and the players should be able to choose when and where they play, then as soon as someone else threatens their hold on the sport ......... panick/rules/regulations/need controls/threat to our gravy train/etc
Statts
I think you will find that its not so much "poaching" as 'accepting' the most successful players from the European Tours applications to join the PGA Tour. Obviously the better players see the PGA tour as the more lucrative and gives them the chance to enhance earning potential not only in prize money but sponsors paying more for increased exposure to the larger audiences both attending and viewing via PFV media. The good thing is the European Tour does not ban outright players who play mostly over the pond but they do allow players to keep their Euro cards and can play in the Euro Tours more attractive matches. Time will tell if the LIV Tour flourishes or just withers away. Will depend if they can attract more of the current crop of top players methinks.
So we are in broad, general agreement that some professional golfers have graduated from being nothing more than selfish money grabbers to amoral, selfish money grabbers.

Sorted.
In a word. Yes. But you don't/cannot blame the PGA for wanting to stop players from migrating over the the LIV. Reducing match sponsors money and TV money could lead to a diminishing of the PGA tour which has been built up over decades.



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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by tamada » June 11, 2022, 9:33 am

AlexO wrote:
June 11, 2022, 8:59 am
tamada wrote:
June 11, 2022, 8:12 am
AlexO wrote:
June 11, 2022, 7:57 am
stattointhailand wrote:
June 10, 2022, 8:17 pm
What I find amazing is the sheer cheek of the PGA. All the years they were poaching the best European players away from the European Tour to go play in their MegaBux Tour, that was just a case of well the players want to play on our tour because its the best and most lucrative and the players should be able to choose when and where they play, then as soon as someone else threatens their hold on the sport ......... panick/rules/regulations/need controls/threat to our gravy train/etc
Statts
I think you will find that its not so much "poaching" as 'accepting' the most successful players from the European Tours applications to join the PGA Tour. Obviously the better players see the PGA tour as the more lucrative and gives them the chance to enhance earning potential not only in prize money but sponsors paying more for increased exposure to the larger audiences both attending and viewing via PFV media. The good thing is the European Tour does not ban outright players who play mostly over the pond but they do allow players to keep their Euro cards and can play in the Euro Tours more attractive matches. Time will tell if the LIV Tour flourishes or just withers away. Will depend if they can attract more of the current crop of top players methinks.
So we are in broad, general agreement that some professional golfers have graduated from being nothing more than selfish money grabbers to amoral, selfish money grabbers.

Sorted.
In a word. Yes. But you don't/cannot blame the PGA for wanting to stop players from migrating over the the LIV. Reducing match sponsors money and TV money could lead to a diminishing of the PGA tour which has been built up over decades.
The pursuit of higher earnings isn't really the center of the debate though. Yes, for the altruistic golfer or fan of golfing, the dilution of the current tours is very worrying. There are parallels with the ill-fated European football Super League where rich, influential but largely broke team owners dreamed up a get rich quick scheme that paid no heed to the fan base. The PGA's governance created a large cash cow for some but it wasn't innovative or too interested in thinking outside the box. Thus it was fair game for the Saudi regime that craves acceptance before getting their own house in order. F1 has seen similar 'upheaval' as a restive new ownership and sponsorship seeks to break some of the staid barriers that can't easily fit the globalization of everything. Despite the protests and cancellation of their GP in 2011, note how Bahrain was eagerly accepted as a venue for a brace of F1 events in 2020. Are there any night-time golfing majors? Pink ball events?

I guess if western government's are happy to go hand-in-glove with certain medieval autocracies, then we shouldn't be too upset if those craving acceptance choose to buy their friends from right under our noses. It remains to be seen if LIV will be a sustainable challenge to the old golfing order.

Now, time to put the moral high horse in the stable as I need to pop out to Big C.
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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by mak » June 12, 2022, 9:37 am

Schwartzel held on for a one-shot victory at the inaugural LIV Golf event outside London to secure the $4-million prize for the individual victory — along with another $750,000 from his share of the $3-million purse earned by his four-man Stinger team for topping the team rankings.
Schwartzel, the 2011 winner at Augusta National, collected more prize money from winning the three-day, 54-hole event than he had from the last four years combined.

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by AlexO » June 13, 2022, 8:28 am

mak wrote:
June 12, 2022, 9:37 am
Schwartzel held on for a one-shot victory at the inaugural LIV Golf event outside London to secure the $4-million prize for the individual victory — along with another $750,000 from his share of the $3-million purse earned by his four-man Stinger team for topping the team rankings.
Schwartzel, the 2011 winner at Augusta National, collected more prize money from winning the three-day, 54-hole event than he had from the last four years combined.
Hi Mak
Given that Schwartzel is now basically a middle of the pack at best player in the PGA its not surprising that the weekends win resulted in more prize money than he has earned in the previous 4 years.
I wonder if he has lost money from his commercial deals, as if I was a negotiator for a sponsor company I would be looking to reduce the outlays to him due to less commercial exposure etc.
Never seen any TV coverage, if anyone did, how did the Shotgun format work? what kind of crowds did the new style tournament attract?

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by stattointhailand » June 13, 2022, 11:26 am

So instead of his name (and your sponsorship) being say the 46th name in a list of finishers at a PGA event, he wins a tournament has his name in EVERY newspaper and sports thread, and you would be looking to REDUCE your sponsorship .......... I bet his sponsors are thrilled :lol:

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by tamada » June 13, 2022, 12:19 pm

stattointhailand wrote:
June 13, 2022, 11:26 am
So instead of his name (and your sponsorship) being say the 46th name in a list of finishers at a PGA event, he wins a tournament has his name in EVERY newspaper and sports thread, and you would be looking to REDUCE your sponsorship .......... I bet his sponsors are thrilled :lol:
Just had a quick check of my two 'go-to' online broadsheets Sports/Golf pages and 'his name' hasn't been mentioned in the Telegraph since his LIV first day lead last Friday but he did get a passing mention in the Grauniad yesterday (in an unflattering commentary).

Meanwhile, McIlroy's win in the PGA's Canadian Open and Linn Grant wining the Scandinavian Mixed on the DP World Tour seem to be grabbing ALL the banner headlines.

Touch... barge pole...
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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by stattointhailand » June 13, 2022, 12:44 pm

So , how many mentions did the Telegraph & Grauniad give to the guy who finished 46th in the Canadian open?
Who did finish 46th?
As they say NO publicity is BAD publicity so even in "an unflattering commentary" their guy they sponsor got mentioned

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by tamada » June 13, 2022, 1:24 pm

stattointhailand wrote:
June 13, 2022, 12:44 pm
So , how many mentions did the Telegraph & Grauniad give to the guy who finished 46th in the Canadian open?
Who did finish 46th?
As they say NO publicity is BAD publicity so even in "an unflattering commentary" their guy they sponsor got mentioned
What I am seeing is the actual LIV golfing, ie. men actually walking and hitting balls, is getting LITTLE publicity, compared to the litany of BAD publicity that's part of a perceived guilt by association. We know who won LIV #1 but can you name the other members of team Stinger? What were the other teams called? How many teams were there?

Same sort of muck that was cast around St. James' last October but tending to stick a bit better?
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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by stattointhailand » June 13, 2022, 2:09 pm

That's funny, coz what I see is a case of "pot calling the kettle black" ....... all LIV are doing is what the PGA have been doing for years, but now their virtual monopoly is under threat. Its no different to the Man U & Spurs boards throwing every thing infront of the Newcastle takeover, or Burnley/Leeds/Watford screaming "foul" from the rooftops re Evertons finances, they see their "gravy train" being challenged.
As it was a South African team, I'm guessing Louis Oosterhuizen and 2 other SA players
Perhaps the mainstream media (sky/ESPN/golf channel/etc) are being cautious because of the contracts they have negotiated with PGA. Give LIV one or two more events with more of the top players available and the media circus/sponsors will realise they need to get on board or get left with the scraps
I dare say not too many could name those that didn't win, but there again who could name who finished 6th 7th 8th and 9th in Canada without looking it up?
stingers.png

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by AlexO » June 14, 2022, 1:39 pm

stattointhailand wrote:
June 13, 2022, 11:26 am
So instead of his name (and your sponsorship) being say the 46th name in a list of finishers at a PGA event, he wins a tournament has his name in EVERY newspaper and sports thread, and you would be looking to REDUCE your sponsorship .......... I bet his sponsors are thrilled :lol:
Statts.
Though it pains me to say it, look at the sponsorship and prize money difference between winning the Scottish Premier League and the EPL. Same game, called football/soccer but night and day between financial/commercial deals. Why? Far larger exposure to many millions more spectators/viewers, thus a far more attractive option for big money deals. That's why I asked did anyone see the LIV Tournament televised, what were the crowds like and was the new Shotgun format a success.

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by stattointhailand » June 14, 2022, 1:47 pm

I refer you to my previous post .....

"Perhaps the mainstream media (sky/ESPN/golf channel/etc) are being cautious because of the contracts they have negotiated with PGA. Give LIV one or two more events with more of the top players available and the media circus/sponsors will realise they need to get on board or get left with the scraps"

Newcastle have FX88 on their shirts this season, not because they dont want Saudiair or Saudi golf (both who would quadruple their income), but because they cant get out of the contract in the same way the PGA/media have current contracts they cant break. Wait till those contracts end and see sky & co fighting for the LIV rights

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by AlexO » June 14, 2022, 2:00 pm

stattointhailand wrote:
June 14, 2022, 1:47 pm
I refer you to my previous post .....

"Perhaps the mainstream media (sky/ESPN/golf channel/etc) are being cautious because of the contracts they have negotiated with PGA. Give LIV one or two more events with more of the top players available and the media circus/sponsors will realise they need to get on board or get left with the scraps"

Newcastle have FX88 on their shirts this season, not because they dont want Saudiair or Saudi golf (both who would quadruple their income), but because they cant get out of the contract in the same way the PGA/media have current contracts they cant break. Wait till those contracts end and see sky & co fighting for the LIV rights
But you are assuming that the cream of the PGA will chuck all the PGA benefits and access to some of the best tournaments in the world to join a basically unknown association where its not even sure if participating will lead to any acknowledged position in the golfing world. What happens to the LIV if the public refuse to support it either by attending or buying cable/satellite access to games. Look at the reactions the greedy football clubs received when they came up with their new money making format. It might turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread, but looking decidedly dodgy at the moment.

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by stattointhailand » June 14, 2022, 2:16 pm

The difference with the golf (from the Euro Superleague) is that it is just one closed shop replacing another closed shop.
Perhaps it will benefit golf by allowing more room in future PGA tours for the young upcoming golfers who would normally not get a chance due to the old foggies playing until they are able to join the "seniors tour" even though they are well past their "sell by date"

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by AlexO » June 14, 2022, 2:39 pm

As I said, it might turn out to be a great idea, just have a feeling that it will just fade away due to opposition from the best players and the paying public. We both have no idea about how the better players are looking at this at the moment except from some statements coming from McIlroy and others pretty much condemning the LIV. Another one not worth spending time banging the keyboard for, because 'WE' will have no influence on the final outcome.

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by stattointhailand » June 14, 2022, 3:10 pm

"because 'WE' will have no influence on the final outcome"

Aw c'mon ....... that's never stopped those on Udonmap 'aving a chinwag about anything in the past :lol:

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by AlexO » June 14, 2022, 7:55 pm

stattointhailand wrote:
June 14, 2022, 3:10 pm
"because 'WE' will have no influence on the final outcome"

Aw c'mon ....... that's never stopped those on Udonmap 'aving a chinwag about anything in the past :lol:
Nope last post on UM. Seen last week a guy having problems with personal home problems that really had an affect on his life.
But we still bicker like stupid little children and trying to think up the worst little brained insults and refusing to admit that their wife is around 25/30 years younger than them. Finished now. Good night UM. Come back when the tissues for your asses run out.

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by tamada » June 15, 2022, 8:57 am

...an' it's a guid nicht frae Alex.

After consistently failing to convince anyone that they only came here to shag underage hooers REGARDLESS OF THE ACTUAL THREAD SUBJECT, he's thrown the towel in.

Have a happy UM retirement Alex. We deserve it.
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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by tamada » June 15, 2022, 9:03 am

Back on topic, in lieu of any significant sponsorship, the media coverage of LIV was predominantly focused on Saudi sportwashing. Curiously enough, the Great White Shark has been very quiet and has let his less than eloquent 'stars' make a proper dogs dinner of explaining how collectively they can't see the elephant in the room.
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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by jackspratt » June 15, 2022, 7:25 pm

Door .... arse ... way out ....

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Re: Saudi-funded LIV Golf Invitational Series

Post by GT93 » June 16, 2022, 1:52 am

He'll be back. The bolshie Scot, Alexo, is entertaining. Up there with KP.

I'm not a fan of sportwashing. I feel sorry for the English Saudicastle fans.
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