80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

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Arosolius
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by Arosolius » September 15, 2014, 8:00 am

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101 ... 34392.html

This documentary shows that 260 million cluster bombs were dropped on Lao. It will take 100 years or more to clear them. They were dropped by the USA on a neutral country. Lao women are risking their lives clearing them but why doesn't the USA do the job?



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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by tigerryan » September 15, 2014, 10:41 am

1. It's not the US's problem 2. Lao deserved it 3. Make Vietnam clean it up 4. Walk along various areas on the old "trail" and you will quickly learn that most recent casualties are looking to make a quick buck in the recycled metal trade and its not that big of a problem for farmers anymore. 5. I like trying to identify various chunks of UXO and don't want it all hauled off by NGO's

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nkstan
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by nkstan » September 15, 2014, 11:44 am

Although I never believed we should have been there,we were and at war!How does anyone believe that Laos was nuetral?If the NV was using Laos for their supply route,we had a right and duty to bomb them!The lives of our troops were directly affected! :roll:

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by rjj04 » September 15, 2014, 12:04 pm

Yeah, take those B52s and carpet bomb all those villages! Take a look around you. Most of the Thai people here in Issan over forty years old probably received little to no education. How much power do you think those villagers and farmers in Laos had to influence what was happening? Almost NONE! They had no vote, they had no weapons, and they had no power to change the situation. Yet, who suffered the most from the carpet bombing and cluster bombs and mines? Apparently not the Vietnamese who used the area as a highway to the south.

If you asked the average American what he or she would rather see, the US govt send money, tools, and staff to help dispose of these mines in Laos, or send money, arms, and "advisers" to Muslim fanatics in Syria, I think I know what the answer would most probably be.

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Arosolius
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by Arosolius » September 15, 2014, 12:07 pm

tigerryan wrote:1. It's not the US's problem 2. Lao deserved it 3. Make Vietnam clean it up 4. Walk along various areas on the old "trail" and you will quickly learn that most recent casualties are looking to make a quick buck in the recycled metal trade and its not that big of a problem for farmers anymore. 5. I like trying to identify various chunks of UXO and don't want it all hauled off by NGO's

Make Vietnam clean it up?
Vietnam was invaded by the USA who had no right to be there.
It the USA wasn't there there wouldn't be a problem.

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Arosolius
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by Arosolius » September 15, 2014, 12:16 pm

nkstan wrote:Although I never believed we should have been there,we were and at war!How does anyone believe that Laos was nuetral?If the NV was using Laos for their supply route,we had a right and duty to bomb them!The lives of our troops were directly affected! :roll:
You were at war? Why were you at war?
Were you invited to invade Vietnam by the French? Or did Vietnam declare war on you?
Yes, the US Government at the time declared and confirmed that Laos was a neutral country.
A right and duty to bomb them? What right and duty? - you had no right to be there let alone a duty to bomb Laos without declaring war on the country.
The lives of your troops were directly affected? what about the lives of the Laotians? Don't they count as much?

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by FrazeeDK » September 15, 2014, 1:00 pm

actually, a diplomatic accord was signed by a number of nations declaring Laos neutral including the U.S. and Vietnam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... ty_of_Laos The Vietnamese were in all probability the first to violate the accord as they established the Ho Chi Minh Trail through Laos and into South Vietnam and Cambodia. At the height of the war The North Vietnamese had upwards of 250,000 combat and logistics troops in Laos guarding the trail and pushing materiel down into the south. In addition to the Ho Chi Minh trail the NVA assisted in a very small part by the Communist Pathet Lao troops engaged in huge offensives pushing down across the Plain of Jars each dry season.. Each rainy season would see the CIA funded Hmong "Secret Army" along with 25,000 Thai "Volunteers" assisted in small part by the Royal Lao military pushing them back. U.S. air power was a key player in these battles and interdicting the Ho Chi Minh Trail. No country involved was innocent but the reality was the Geneva Accords on Lao's neutrality were merely a diplomatic agreement purely for world optics.

The U.S. funds various NGOs that perform demine in Laos including the Mine Advisory Group. That the U.S. is not there with troops physically on the ground performing this mission is a decision primarily by the Lao government.
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by rjj04 » September 15, 2014, 2:17 pm

FrazeeDK wrote: The U.S. funds various NGOs that perform demine in Laos including the Mine Advisory Group. That the U.S. is not there with troops physically on the ground performing this mission is a decision primarily by the Lao government.
"staff" not "troops"... god forbid :lol:

Good to see that the USA has accepted some responsibility.

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by FrazeeDK » September 15, 2014, 5:00 pm

The U.S. has a continuing "close" working relationship with the Lao government on recovering U.S. war dead remains throughout Laos. Each year teams of "troops" accompanied by civilian technicians and anthropologists pursue leads and excavate crash sites throughout Laos. Each year 4-5 Joint Field Activities (JFA's) occur. They are "staffed" primarily with active duty U.S. troops drawn temporarily from all branches of the U.S. armed forces and under the command of the Joint Pow-MIA Accountability Command (JPAC). Detachment 3 of JPAC is located at the U.S. Embassy in Vientiane. Expanding the "close" relationship from beyond PWMIA recovery missions into allowing U.S. military experts to clear Laos of UXO isn't going to happen soon.
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » September 16, 2014, 2:54 am

The amazing thing is that the Lao people seem to hold no ill-will to the United States at all.

One restaurant owner in Xieng Khouang (ຊຽງຂວາງ) has three unexploded bombs outside his restaurant. They are labelled, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by farlong68 » September 16, 2014, 4:37 am

yes is spent some time in the area along the trail and have found myself on the wrong side of history...the bombs were necessary and very evil...history can not be re written. the lao people I knew back then and a few that we helped relocate in Colorado after the war were lovely folks kind and generous...as a country the U.S. should do more but probably wont as we are on to the next war and the next and the next....thanks for your nice piece on your latest adventure may you have many more sincerely john

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by tigerryan » September 16, 2014, 11:31 pm

The Lao people are nice especially the Hmong (pronounced "Ha Mongs" with thick Texas accent). The generation of Laotions (pronouced "Lay.... Oceans" spoken with a very loud tone) that remember the war have all passed. Before history is completely rewritten by shitdips I would encourage anyone to grab a US DOD 1:50,000 map circa 1970 then have a walkabout North East or South East of Tchepone on Hwy 9 then go home a spend some time on Google Earth. My observations are that most of the villages or hut clusters are just about the same now as they were then. The area is seriously rural. The trail network was absolutely crawling with commie dinks during the war I mean crawling, think in terms of millions, but these folks were enemy combatants not poor little innocent farmers. The few Lao villagers that actually lived there either ran for the more distant hills or were conscripted. The area of Laos along trail network bombed relative to the population density of that area is actually quite small. Lao would do itself a big favor to criminally outlaw the scrap metal trade but this is Asia.

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » September 17, 2014, 12:50 am

Well, they aren't all dead as I spoke to some people who were alive at that time.

Most of the Lao people trying to escape the U.S. bombing raids hid in caves, and there are many of them throughout the country. Not far from Sam Neua in north-east Laos you can visit some Pathet Lao caves and see where they held dances, dinners, political sessions and all that. I did not go there on this trip but will next year.

I do not think all of the people living in Laos 'deserved it', as many of them did not support either the Royal Lao government or the Pathet Lao. They just wanted to live in peace but events instigated by North Vietnam and the United States overtook them.
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by TJ » September 17, 2014, 6:34 am

It is to be hoped that many will soon be or have been rendered inactive through corrosion or other effects that should be detrimental to the iife of these deady mechanisms. I don't see them remaining active over decades in a tropical invironment.

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by Arosolius » September 17, 2014, 8:04 am

From the posts it seems some of you didn't actually look at the video before posting. At least I hope not.
Here it is again: http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101 ... 34392.html

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by FrazeeDK » September 17, 2014, 10:34 am

UXO can definitely sit in the ground for decades and probably centuries.. There's still UXO in the States from the Civil War that get dug up occasionally.. Germany regularly digs up 500/1000/2000 pound bombs throughout the country.. The thing about Lao is that I believe its only the NGOs doing the UXO clearance. I don't know of any organized Lao military or government element out in the bush digging up UXO.. The Lao government probably would gladly do it though, IF some other country footed the bill...
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by FrazeeDK » September 17, 2014, 10:38 am

Dave

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by FrazeeDK » September 17, 2014, 10:44 am

U.S. now contributing 12 million dollars a year for UXO clearance in Lao.. http://www.nra.gov.la/images/New%20feed ... 20Laos.pdf

of course the question is, how much of this 12 million actually get down to the level of that female detachment of UXO clearance specialists who spend so much time away from their families and put their lives in jeopardy??
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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by Lao-miner » September 17, 2014, 12:48 pm

As far as i know Frazee, UXO LAO are a government run outfit but NGO funded. Bactec. pheonix, Milsearch and mag are all contractors who mostly get jobs from the NGO sector or hydro and mining, The outfit i work for in Lao used to use contractors but decided to go it alone, ( Under NRA regulations ) they have all there own gear and Trained people, seems to be working they find something everyday , Bombies mostly and everything right up to 1000 pounders.
The Lao government have set a target of 2020 for 100% bomb decontamination, they recently admitted that this is unlikey. got to agree. theres simply so much of it out there

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80 million unexploded US cluster bomblets still in Lao soil

Post by rick » September 17, 2014, 8:09 pm

As for how long bombs stay active, it was only this year that an idiot in Bangkok decided to cut up the WW2 bomb he found at a building site for scrap, thinking it was safe. 7 dead. So at least 70 years in the tropics.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26847366

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