John's budget build

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ajarnudon
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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » May 30, 2021, 10:12 pm

Moving along. Had an issue with the 2,000 litre rainwater tank on the southern side. After the recent heavy rains, the weight of 2,000 litres of water caused the pad to subside a little on one end. Emptied the tank, did some excavation and underpinned it with concrete and a lot of steel.
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My favourite sunset
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The girls, drinks in hand, going for a stroll at dusk in the paddies. Footings for the new 23,000 litre rainwater storage tank (northern side) in the foreground.
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We used 4 x 12 mm deformed bars at 20 cm centres for the 30 cm x 30 cm footings.
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Lower level plumbing went in early, with each compartment having a valve in the pump line as well as a drain cock.
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Making good progress
Rainwater storage tank.jpg
Outer wall detail. The 6 cm concrete blocks on the outside are simply formwork for the main concrete wall which is reinforced both vertically and laterally with 12 mm deformed bar. The inner wall is made of 9 mm concrete blocks with the tops cut out to accommodate a horizontal bar which is tied into the main wall steel with 6 mm rod at the end of each block.
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We started the final course today which will have a finished internal (ie. water storage) height of 1.44 metres.



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Barney
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Re: John's budget build

Post by Barney » May 31, 2021, 2:28 am

Good news on the progress.
Very accurate on the 23,000 mtr rain tank.
Is it premade or are you fabricating on site.
Interested on the type and style


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bluejets
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Re: John's budget build

Post by bluejets » May 31, 2021, 7:58 am

Used to supply concrete for on-site tanks up in Moura and the guys there were from down in Ipswich.

They would bring all their gear, steel formwork etc with them and build the structure with the floor first, followed by the sides.

On another day they would set up and pour the lid if required.
Third day was strip out.

Even though the sides were 3mm curved and braced steel, the whole arrangement was tied together with four 20mm steel wire ropes around the outer diameter, tensioned via rather large turnbuckles to avoid any blowout.

Just a thought here, perhaps your outer wall is insufficiently braced.

Might be best to get a second opinion before you commit to all that concrete.

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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » May 31, 2021, 11:15 am

Hi guys, the walls will be completed today. I have no doubts as to the strength - several tonnes of steel in there. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. What you see in the detail photo is repeated in every course (ie every 20 cms vertically). The 9 cm blocks are backfilled with concrete (piss and pebbles as you would say Bariney). The two block walls are the permanent formwork for the main 13 cm solid concrete wall. The three inner compartment walls are also reinforced with 12 mm rebar both horizontally and vertically and backfilled with concrete. All built on site Barney.

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Barney
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John's budget build

Post by Barney » May 31, 2021, 3:53 pm

ajarnudon wrote:Hi guys, the walls will be completed today. I have no doubts as to the strength - several tonnes of steel in there. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. What you see in the detail photo is repeated in every course (ie every 20 cms vertically). The 9 cm blocks are backfilled with concrete (piss and pebbles as you would say Bariney). The two block walls are the permanent formwork for the main 13 cm solid concrete wall. The three inner compartment walls are also reinforced with 12 mm rebar both horizontally and vertically and backfilled with concrete. All built on site Barney.
Good work
Keep the stages coming in photos

Piss and pebbles. The slang for block fill. Usually just a 7 mm rock and wet. A good bloke on the hose of a line pump can empty a 5 cu mtr truck pretty quick.


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ajarnudon
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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » May 31, 2021, 11:28 pm

"The inner wall is made of 9 mm concrete blocks"
Sorry, I am sure you all realised that I meant 9 cm blocks

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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » June 2, 2021, 12:58 pm

All walls now completed and started rendering inside the compartments today. This is the first step to waterproof the walls - second step will be three coats of Shell Flintcote (bitumenous emulsion).
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I bought the steel for the compartment hatch covers yesterday - 16,000 baht. Ouch! Chequer plate steel isn't cheap.
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According to Sheffield Metals website, raw steel prices increased by a massive 75% between August 2020 and March 2021 https://sheffieldmetals.com/learning-ce ... date-2021/ This may mean putting some work like fences and gates on the backburner for a while.
Hopefully we will make a start on fabricating the hatch covers and float valve housings tomorrow. Meanwhile the neighbours are heads down, bums up busily planting rice.
20210602_104502.jpg

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Re: John's budget build

Post by bluejets » June 3, 2021, 6:21 am

So 1.44M water level height ...what are other dimensions..??

Just wondered if you ever noticed how water tanks are usually round.
There is a good reason for that.

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Khun Paul
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Re: John's budget build

Post by Khun Paul » June 3, 2021, 6:32 am

bluejets wrote:
June 3, 2021, 6:21 am
So 1.44M water level height ...what are other dimensions..??

Just wondered if you ever noticed how water tanks are usually round.
There is a good reason for that.

It is to ensure no little hiding places for bugs etc, and that the tank can be cleaned easily. Square tanks are a nightmare having had to be part of a cleaning crew for two extraordinarily large tanks on a military base when serving, even in the UK an unpleasant task here it would be a nightmare.

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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » June 3, 2021, 12:02 pm

"Just wondered if you ever noticed how water tanks are usually round.
There is a good reason for that."
Really? Wasted space for mine

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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » June 3, 2021, 12:10 pm

"Square tanks are a nightmare having had to be part of a cleaning crew .."
I am able to pump water from any one compartment to the other three, and the hatch covers lift off to facilitate easy cleaning. Every compartment has a drain cock at the base, and it isn't likely that I will be doing the cleaning. We have been cleaning them daily during the rendering process and it really is a piece of cake.

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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » June 4, 2021, 11:30 am

"So 1.44M water level height ...what are other dimensions..??"
The 1.44 m is an average, with a slight floor slope towards the drain cocks. The sum of the internal widths of the four compartments is 4.28 m, and the interal length is 3.95 m = 24.34 cubic metres, or 24,344 litres. The float valves and associated plumbing are in a narrow steel housing above the waterline. The floats will be adjusted to cut off at 4 cms below the tank top, reducing holding capacity to 23,500 litres.

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Re: John's budget build

Post by bluejets » June 5, 2021, 5:39 am

I was referring to the differences in physics between round and square tanks and you seem to have missed it completely.

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Khun Paul
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Re: John's budget build

Post by Khun Paul » June 5, 2021, 7:02 am

ajarnudon wrote:
June 3, 2021, 12:10 pm
"Square tanks are a nightmare having had to be part of a cleaning crew .."
I am able to pump water from any one compartment to the other three, and the hatch covers lift off to facilitate easy cleaning. Every compartment has a drain cock at the base, and it isn't likely that I will be doing the cleaning. We have been cleaning them daily during the rendering process and it really is a piece of cake.
There is cleaning and then there is cleaning, after a few months of being filled with water , the buglets and other nasties will have invaded all and every crevice and unless you are intending this water top go through a filter prior to usage then unless emptied, dried out, power washed and disinfected, just cleaning will not do . But then your decision, applaud your ideas but implementation a bit iffy.

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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » June 6, 2021, 12:42 am

"There is cleaning and then there is cleaning, after a few months of being filled with water , the buglets and other nasties will have invaded all and every crevice and unless you are intending this water top go through a filter prior to usage then unless emptied, dried out, power washed and disinfected, just cleaning will not do."
My (ex) brother-in-law and hundreds of thousands of Australian families far removed from cities have managed with unfiltered rainwater in never-cleaned tanks (mind you, round ones) for many generations for drinking, cooking, washing and bathing. The worst thing that happened was that you were last in the bath in a family of six (or more). There were no health issues at all. They did practice first flush techniques by having the feed arm from the guttering adrift and they would go out in the rain to swing it over the tank open (but screened) intake - the first rain would wash the dust and bird poo away before any input to the tank. I also use a first flush technique, but a modern one that doesn't need me to get wet.
Anyway, I enjoy the banter. We have been using 20 litre bottles of filtered watered at the house for drinking and cooking which cost 10 baht delivered - if it turns out that there are any issues with drinkinng the stored rainwater (and I will take a big wager if you like), then we will simply revert to the home delivered 20 litre bottles. Let's just stick to construction issues now.

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Re: John's budget build

Post by ajarnudon » June 6, 2021, 1:07 am

"I was referring to the differences in physics between round and square tanks and you seem to have missed it completely."
Have you considered the cost of one-off round formwork for a given circumference tank? What about bending the 12 mm reo into the required radius? Bluejets and Khun Paul, I promise to give you an update in six months about both the water potability and tank structural integrity - and am prepared to accept a substantial wager on both issues right now.

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Re: John's budget build

Post by bluejets » June 6, 2021, 5:42 am

The cost of the difference would be negligible compared to a failure in a given design.
Bending 12 mm reo is just another chore but by no means difficult.
It is simply mild steel deformed after all.
A simple roller mechanism could be whipped up in an afternoon while watching the footie. :D :D

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Khun Paul
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Re: John's budget build

Post by Khun Paul » June 6, 2021, 7:23 am

My point is about the cleaning, not the structural situation, you build what you want, however round tanks ARE easier to clean. I have no intention of entering into a wager about cleaning as no doubt you will have taken what I said on board and ensured it is done to high standards or not . I clean my round tanks every year, I have 4 that deliver to the house .

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