If that is your take on thing Pratt then so was the USA and quite a few other fine upstanding Nations with full International Credibility.jackspratt wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 9:36 amLet's get back to the original point of my OP, which was that the state of Israel was built on (ie originated from) terrorism.
Enough silly deflections to the British Labor Party, and Osama Bin Laden and Navy Seals.
And particularly, the shabby tactic of alleging anti-Semitism.
How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
Hi Ken6583, and I am not being disrespectful, but have you ever been to the Middle East and do you understand the nature of the people in the Region. It's not like Idaho in the mid west of the USA, nor is it like Alice Springs in outback Australia.Kenr6583 wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:56 amCome on man, I work 10 plus hours a day 6 days a week, I did that during my lunch time. LOL... Cut me some slack.Udon Map wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:52 amThe entire thread is about Israeli "terrorism." But, as I said, one can't really understand it out of context. I merely suggested an approach whereby you might provide some context. You seem disinclined to do so.
Just a Yes or a No will do.
pipoz4444
Last edited by pipoz4444 on May 11, 2021, 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
Part of the reason for the continued conflict between Israel and Palestinians is the fact that Israel will not return land that Palestinians owned. Jews are still taking over land from Arabs in East Jerusalem and redeveloping it. Arabs are not allowed to redevelop land or build new houses. Likewise new Jewish settlements are continually being created on the west bank in Palestine, and soon East Jerusalem will be surrounded by internationally illegal Jewish settlements.
Under the Oslo accords the Gaza strip and the west bank were given self government. But Israel has never relinquished full control and has annexed or plans to annex 30% of the west bank. Infrastructure development is also prevented. Understandingly, the Palestinian population is not happy.
Under the Oslo accords the Gaza strip and the west bank were given self government. But Israel has never relinquished full control and has annexed or plans to annex 30% of the west bank. Infrastructure development is also prevented. Understandingly, the Palestinian population is not happy.
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
How did Israel come to take over the West Bank and Gaza? Do you remember? (Or, if you're not old enough, have you read about it?)rick wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 2:36 pmPart of the reason for the continued conflict between Israel and Palestinians is the fact that Israel will not return land that Palestinians owned. Jews are still taking over land from Arabs in East Jerusalem and redeveloping it. Arabs are not allowed to redevelop land or build new houses. Likewise new Jewish settlements are continually being created on the west bank in Palestine, and soon East Jerusalem will be surrounded by internationally illegal Jewish settlements.
Under the Oslo accords the Gaza strip and the west bank were given self government. But Israel has never relinquished full control and has annexed or plans to annex 30% of the west bank. Infrastructure development is also prevented. Understandingly, the Palestinian population is not happy.
For nearly 40 years, Israel controlled Gaza. Under Israeli rule, Gaza became a thriving area, with tourism, great infrastructure, and a booming economy. Then Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. And what has Gaza become?
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
^ Even during the Israeli-controlled glory days, the unskilled Israeli labour camp that was Gaza became an enclave starved of free trade, enterprise and utilities.
"The economic growth rate from 1967 to 1982 averaged roughly 9.7 percent per annum, due in good part to expanded income from work opportunities inside Israel, which had a major utility for the latter by supplying the country with a large reserve of unskilled and semi-skilled manpower. Gaza's agricultural sector was adversely affected as one-third of the Strip was appropriated by Israel, competition for scarce water resources stiffened, and the lucrative cultivation of citrus declined with the advent of Israeli policies, such as prohibitions on planting new trees and taxation that gave breaks to Israeli producers, factors which militated against growth. Gaza's direct exports of these products to Western markets, as opposed to Arab markets, was prohibited except through Israeli marketing vehicles, in order to assist Israeli citrus exports to the same markets. The overall result was that large numbers of farmers were forced out of the agricultural sector. Israel placed quotas on all goods exported from Gaza, while abolishing restrictions on the flow of Israeli goods into the Strip. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
"The economic growth rate from 1967 to 1982 averaged roughly 9.7 percent per annum, due in good part to expanded income from work opportunities inside Israel, which had a major utility for the latter by supplying the country with a large reserve of unskilled and semi-skilled manpower. Gaza's agricultural sector was adversely affected as one-third of the Strip was appropriated by Israel, competition for scarce water resources stiffened, and the lucrative cultivation of citrus declined with the advent of Israeli policies, such as prohibitions on planting new trees and taxation that gave breaks to Israeli producers, factors which militated against growth. Gaza's direct exports of these products to Western markets, as opposed to Arab markets, was prohibited except through Israeli marketing vehicles, in order to assist Israeli citrus exports to the same markets. The overall result was that large numbers of farmers were forced out of the agricultural sector. Israel placed quotas on all goods exported from Gaza, while abolishing restrictions on the flow of Israeli goods into the Strip. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
I was asked a question and I gave an answer. Where did I say Arabs have more rights and better lives in Israel than anywhere else?
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
Udon Map, the only thing I care about in the Middle East is all the money that we are sending over there, and Israel being a developed country, use the money that they are saving from the military aid from the United States and take care of their people and stop making commercials here in the United States begging for money.
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
No, I have never been to the Middle East.pipoz4444 wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 11:40 amHi Ken6583, and I am not being disrespectful, but have you ever been to the Middle East and do you understand the nature of the people in the Region. It's not like Idaho in the mid west of the USA, nor is it like Alice Springs in outback Australia.Kenr6583 wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:56 amCome on man, I work 10 plus hours a day 6 days a week, I did that during my lunch time. LOL... Cut me some slack.Udon Map wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:52 amThe entire thread is about Israeli "terrorism." But, as I said, one can't really understand it out of context. I merely suggested an approach whereby you might provide some context. You seem disinclined to do so.
Just a Yes or a No will do.
pipoz4444
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
15 allKenr6583 wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:09 pmNo, I have never been to the Middle East.pipoz4444 wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 11:40 amHi Ken6583, and I am not being disrespectful, but have you ever been to the Middle East and do you understand the nature of the people in the Region. It's not like Idaho in the mid west of the USA, nor is it like Alice Springs in outback Australia.Kenr6583 wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:56 amCome on man, I work 10 plus hours a day 6 days a week, I did that during my lunch time. LOL... Cut me some slack.Udon Map wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:52 amThe entire thread is about Israeli "terrorism." But, as I said, one can't really understand it out of context. I merely suggested an approach whereby you might provide some context. You seem disinclined to do so.
Just a Yes or a No will do.
pipoz4444
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Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
I don't want to get too off-topic here, pipo.
But do you believe you have an understanding of the nature of people in:
- the Middle East (as geographically large as it is)
- mid-west Idaho
- Alice Springs in Oz
As an example. I have lived 4 years in China (Beijing) and 13 years in Thailand (Isaan), and I wouldn't pretend to think I have an "understanding" of either.
But do you believe you have an understanding of the nature of people in:
- the Middle East (as geographically large as it is)
- mid-west Idaho
- Alice Springs in Oz
As an example. I have lived 4 years in China (Beijing) and 13 years in Thailand (Isaan), and I wouldn't pretend to think I have an "understanding" of either.
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
I don't think I've made a comment on here to take a side or insult either side on this issue. I just answered a question about Israeli terrorist groups and I made a comment wondering why a developed country like Israel was making commercials here begging for money.
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
That's why I didn't comment on the second question. Kind of open-ended. I would be an egotistical idiot to think to know everything about the people with a different culture in a different country than my own. I don't even understand some of the people in my own country sometimes.jackspratt wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:46 pmI don't want to get too off-topic here, pipo.
But do you believe you have an understanding of the nature of people in:
- the Middle East (as geographically large as it is)
- mid-west Idaho
- Alice Springs in Oz
As an example. I have lived 4 years in China (Beijing) and 13 years in Thailand (Isaan), and I wouldn't pretend to think I have an "understanding" of either.
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
Its not Off Topic. In fact it is relevant to understand the nature of people from different Countries, so as to add some definition or meaning to the underlying reasons behind the Conflict between Countries and why People within do what they do to perpetuate it. Often there is more to it, than the apparent or so called obvious surface reasons, or what is even reported in the mainstream media, for ratings purpose.jackspratt wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:46 pmI don't want to get too off-topic here, pipo.
But do you believe you have an understanding of the nature of people in:
- the Middle East (as geographically large as it is)
- mid-west Idaho
- Alice Springs in Oz
As an example. I have lived 4 years in China (Beijing) and 13 years in Thailand (Isaan), and I wouldn't pretend to think I have an "understanding" of either.
I don't profess to be an expert on this particular issue or other cultural aspects of peoples behavior, but I was curious as to whether some of those making certain specific comments about each Country, have ever spent any extended time in the Region. So. I asked Ken if he had been over to the Region. I do think that, if one is going to assert something about a Country vs Another and or especially be critical of its peoples actions, then one should know more than just the geographic location of that Country, on the map and witness the people themselves. Understanding the underlying "Cause or Causes", as it may be, is pertinent to any issue.
I have learnt something during my 23 years plus overseas, in a number of different Countries, with totally different cultures, and certainly not all, but it would be inappropriate, if not unwise for me to Comment on this issue, given my geographical location and position.
So, I was just asking if Ken had been over this way. Simple Yes or No would have been enough and as it was Ken answered it politely (Thanks Ken). I wasn't planning to argue the Toss one way or another. not here anyway
pipoz4444
Last edited by pipoz4444 on May 11, 2021, 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
So, to simplify things, your question to Ken could just as easily have been "have you ever been to the Middle East"?
"Yes or No"?
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Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
This is an excellent idea. After all, it isn't a one-sided love affair.Udon Map wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:26 amFair enough, Ken. But I know that you want the comparison to be complete and comprehensive, so now please make a list of Arab/Palesinian terrorist organizations over the years, as well as individual Arab/Palestinian terrorists. You'll want to include, for example, brave and noble individuals like Mohammad Tra'ayra, who broke into an Israeli home and stabbed a 13 year old girl to death in her bed.
Bedroom.jpg
An interesting sidelight to that attack is that Mohammad Tra'ayra's family now receives approximately $350/month in perpetuity from the Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund as a reward for his heroism in killing this unarmed child.
Then, just for fun, why not make two more lists? One will be of all Israeli "terrorist" operations/attacks aimed specifically at civilian, non-military and non-terrorist individuals, and all Arab/Palestinian operations/attacks similarly aimed specifically at civilian, non-military and non-terrorist individuals.
Please post the two additional lists in this thread.
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Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
On this date in 1960 Adolph Eichmann was captured by the Mossad in Argentina and returned to Israel to stand trial for crimes against humanity. He was found guilty and hung two years later.
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.
Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
LOL, are you serious dude? You're the one who wanted to know the name of an Israeli terrorist organization. I was responding to YOUR question.Laan Yaa Mo wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 9:44 pmThis is an excellent idea. After all, it isn't a one-sided love affair.Udon Map wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 7:26 amFair enough, Ken. But I know that you want the comparison to be complete and comprehensive, so now please make a list of Arab/Palesinian terrorist organizations over the years, as well as individual Arab/Palestinian terrorists. You'll want to include, for example, brave and noble individuals like Mohammad Tra'ayra, who broke into an Israeli home and stabbed a 13 year old girl to death in her bed.
Bedroom.jpg
An interesting sidelight to that attack is that Mohammad Tra'ayra's family now receives approximately $350/month in perpetuity from the Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund as a reward for his heroism in killing this unarmed child.
Then, just for fun, why not make two more lists? One will be of all Israeli "terrorist" operations/attacks aimed specifically at civilian, non-military and non-terrorist individuals, and all Arab/Palestinian operations/attacks similarly aimed specifically at civilian, non-military and non-terrorist individuals.
Please post the two additional lists in this thread.
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Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
Sorry, I wasn't wasting my time asking you anything so no need to reply to me. I was responding to Udon Map because more than most people who have posted on this topic, he recognises that there are two sides at play here, not just one.
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Re: How Does a State Built on Terorism Assume International Credibility?
I wasn't taking anybody's side on this issue. I have very little knowledge on what goes on over there, I had never heard of any Israeli terrorist organizations before, didn't realize there were any, and that's why I looked it up, curiosity. I will extend you the same courtesy and not waste my time with you either.