The End of the NRA?

[jackspratt]

Hopefully so, in which case may allow for more measured debate on the question of the crazy US gun laws.

New York Attorney-General seeks to dissolve National Rifle Association over millions in misspending

New York's Attorney-General has sued the National Rifle Association (NRA) over allegations that high-ranking executives diverted millions of dollars for lavish personal trips, no-show contracts for associates and other questionable expenditures.

The lawsuit filed in a Manhattan court by Attorney-General Letitia James alleges NRA leaders paid for family trips to the Bahamas, private jets and expensive meals that contributed to a $US64 million ($88 million) reduction in the NRA's balance sheet in three years, turning a surplus into a deficit.

The lawsuit highlighted misspending and self-dealing allegations that have roiled the NRA and its longtime leader, Wayne LaPierre, in recent years — from hair and makeup for his wife to a $17 million post-employment contract for himself.

Simultaneously, the Washington, DC, Attorney-General sued the NRA Foundation, a charitable arm of the organisation designed to provide programs for firearm safety, marksmanship and hunting safety, accusing it of diverting funds to the NRA to help pay for lavish spending by its top executives...................

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-07/ ... a/12533022

This is an organisation so pernicious that even Contragate Ollie North couldn't stomach it.

[Doodoo]

The gun laws in the USA are not crazy (definitely in their minds).

Crazy in your mind but in theres they are based on decades of hate, fear, of government, rules, laws, what is the other guy doing that I dont know about. Media, Internet, Religion, racisim, and whatever other "Isim" there is out there, its an everyday thing.

If an American had 47 handguns, 16 shotguns, 24 automatic rifles, machines guns etc and 10 million rounds of ammunition. The comment would be "I dont think you have enough Ammo, Bro"

[the-monk]

NRA untouchable, protected by criminals in Washington and by misguided calls to the Constitution. Pathetic...

[Whistler]

1794

- A long arm weapon was black powder, round shot effective range up to 50 meters, only a few shots per minute
- no standing police force or army
- Indian nations resisting kind takeover of their lands by whites
- no supermarkets to buy meat
- under threat from British invasions via Canada
- the second amendment made sense for personal and national defence and was real handy for killing Indians and uppity blacks

what other country in the civilised world base their gun laws on such an archaic premise?

[maaka]

they can just start up under another name. Its only an Association. All the guns will still be out there.

[vincemunday]

The end of the NRA... I nearly had to use an emoji... ludicrous!

[Khun Paul]

It could be the end of the NRA as we know it but it will not be the end of the weapons in the hands of morons who think America is constantly under attack. They are right of course, it is under attack from within due in part to its outdated views and in many states blatant racism which festers under the seemingly normal life of many towns and cities .

[AlexO]

KP, please tell us the last time you visited the USA and did the research that allows you to make sweeping statements on the normal life of towns and cities in the USA, or maybe you just read the Guardian. Its like saying Tower Hamlets in London is typical of all of the UK.

[tamada]

Yes, sadly there are far too many cold dead hands controlled by atrophied brains for that ever to become a reality. They like to cling to the illusion that they were the only, true freedom fighters ever to grace humankind, hence the need to be good boy scouts and "Be prepared".

In reality, they beat the Brits and then helped beat the Axis but beyond kicking over a fruit stand in Grenada, their subsequent one-on-one's have been all a bit rubbish.

[vincemunday]

They’re a very POWERFUL (I had to do it) lobby group, they have about 6,000,000 members (millions more supporters) who would be very upset at the mention of a politician advocating the banning of the association. No one in their right minds would even think they’re going anywhere.

Inappropriate use of Caps and idiotic emojis, I’m getting good at this.

[Whistler]

They’re a very POWERFUL (I had to do it) lobby group, they have about 6,000,000 members (millions more supporters) who would be very upset at the mention of a politician advocating the banning of the association. No one in their right minds would even think they’re going anywhere.

Inappropriate use of Caps and idiotic emojis, I’m getting good at this.

Agree with Vince. Guns are so entrenched in the DNA of so many Americans that gun control is almost impossible to implement. The NRA has been corrupt for a long time, it was hijacked by the heavy handed Texas based internal faction years ago. That might change and a less aggressive NRA may emerge, but that is drawing a long bow.

[noosard]

Yes, sadly there are far too many cold dead hands controlled by atrophied brains for that ever to become a reality. They like to cling to the illusion that they were the only, true freedom fighters ever to grace humankind, hence the need to be good boy scouts and "Be prepared".

In reality, they beat the Brits and then helped beat the Axis but beyond kicking over a fruit stand in Grenada, their subsequent one-on-one's have been all a bit rubbish.

That fruit stand was probably had a huge compo bill which uncle sam over paid as well

I watched this movie about a fictious banana republic starting a war with USA to get compo
Think it was based to truth

[vincemunday]

I've looked at the so called corruption suit etc brought by Ms James and it's very flimsy to say the least and I'm not at all convinced the NRA committed any crimes, the most serious, "diversion of funds" will be difficult to quantify, who's to say what is essential travel etc? Taking the worst case scenario, even if one of the accusations stick there's still not enough cause to disband an association that is essentially supported by and protects the 2nd amendment. We will see but my best guess is Letitia will be giving the old " I dont care if i lost, it was to highlight.." speech, I still think it's unlikely this will come to anything.

[Whistler]

More to it than that Vince. LaPierre's manipulation, salary for life etc, etc. He has really made a lot of enemies, this will bring them out of the woodwork.

The case is a work-in-progress, I suspect the next month will see many more charges added to this initial salvo.

[tamada]

I've looked at the so called corruption suit etc brought by Ms James and it's very flimsy to say the least and I'm not at all convinced the NRA committed any crimes, the most serious, "diversion of funds" will be difficult to quantify, who's to say what is essential travel etc? Taking the worst case scenario, even if one of the accusations stick there's still not enough cause to disband an association that is essentially supported by and protects the 2nd amendment. We will see but my best guess is Letitia will be giving the old " I dont care if i lost, it was to highlight.." speech, I still think it's unlikely this will come to anything.

Thus the myth that the NRA 'protects the 2nd amendment' lives on.

The 2nd amendment was already 80 years old and happily ensconced without any need for protection in the US Constitution before a New York gun club was formed.

"The primary goal of the association would be to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," according to a magazine editorial written by Church. After being granted a charter by the state of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded."

That's from the NRA's own pocket history on their website that after thirteen paragraphs of how they were founded to encourage better marksmanship, encourage hunting, develop firearms safety awareness aid the war effort and assist the training of law enforcement, it suddenly lurches with this somewhat uncorroborated assertion that it is...America's foremost defender of Second Amendment rights, ..."

https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/

I guess this hijacking of the 2nd amendment comes under that old "and the rest is history" chestnut.

[vincemunday]

Fortunately Tam it's not for you nor I to decide if the second amendment is outdated, needs to be changed etc it's up to our brothers and sisters across the pond. To change the constitution for whatever reason is a huge deal, open the floodgates then what next, the first? There's a group of people who would love that.

Unlike Mr Whistler, I believe this case will fail completely, the NRA are no fools and have the financial and legal backing to see off such vague charges, they've been here before.

By the by, I am not particularly pro NRA and I'd like to see better controlled gun ownership but that's not just in the US.

[tamada]

Fortunately Tam it's not for you nor I to decide if the second amendment is outdated, needs to be changed etc it's up to our brothers and sisters across the pond. To change the constitution for whatever reason is a huge deal, open the floodgates then what next, the first? There's a group of people who would love that.

Unlike Mr Whistler, I believe this case will fail completely, the NRA are no fools and have the financial and legal backing to see off such vague charges, they've been here before.

By the by, I am not particularly pro NRA and I'd like to see better controlled gun ownership but that's not just in the US.

There's no need to change any amendment though. The amendment was hijacked by the NRA as far back as the 1960's. What's needed is to stop the further politicization of it by the NRA which really kicked off in the 1990's under Lapierre's manipulation. From the NHA's website previously linked.

In 1990, NRA made a dramatic move to ensure that the financial support for firearms-related activities would be available now and for future generations. Establishing the NRA Foundation, a 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt organization, provided a means to raise millions of dollars to fund gun safety and educational projects of benefit to the general public. Contributions to the Foundation are tax-deductible and benefit a variety of American constituencies including youth, women, hunters, competitive shooters, gun collectors, law enforcement agents and persons with physical disabilities.

You have to look no further at how odious his manipulation is when you read his response to the February 14, 2018 Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida, where 17 students and adults were killed and 14 injured.

He also argued that the constitutional right to keep and bear arms "is not bestowed by man, but granted by God to all Americans as our American birthright."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_LaPierre

So now it is GOD that has given the NRA the rights to trample the second amendment.

"We the sheeple..."

Some alternate opinions here.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues ... lies-fear/

[jackspratt]

Who would imagine that the sitting President's very own charitable foundation could be closed down for "a shocking pattern of illegality" ....... absurd.

Oh, wait........

A New York judge has signed off on a deal to shut down Donald Trump’s personal charity after a lawsuit exposed a “shocking pattern of illegality”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... wn-lawsuit

Of course, this thread is about the (very real) potential closure of the NRA, and the effect that could have on the gun control debate.

[vincemunday]

Usual Prattish look at me ain’t I clever post, what has Trump’s personal charity got to do with the NRA? Yes it’s about the potential but unlikely closure of the NRA.

[jackspratt]

This thread is about the NRA, vince - not about me.

Concentrate.