America coming apart at the seams?

[mickojak]

Here's the problem for the cops;

Mixed in with the peaceful protesters are local gang members from the ghetto's, (the ones doing the rioting, looting etc)
These people will kill for a packet of smokes.
They are just taking advantage of the situation for some personal gains at any cost.
They don't care about George Floyd, or "Black lives matter", at all.

So, if you were a cop, facing these thugs mixed in with normal, non violent people, what do you do?
Give everyone the benefit of doubt?
Or protect yourself from any unwanted, and possible deadly consequences to yourself.

Put yourself in their shoes.
They got families too, ya know.

[cjd01]

You missed out the part about signing up for being murdered and attacked by anything at hand.
I personally wouldn't want to be an police officer in these peaceful protests
Mission statements are great to put on the wall and then reality steps in.

No. It's included in the "serve and protect" bit of pretty much any police force. Agree that policing isn't for everyone but if some are unfit to serve or protect and only see the badge and gun as an enabler of their own misunderstanding or distortion of the oath they swore to, those are the ones that need to give up their day (or night) job.

totally agree with your point but where does serve and protect start and finish, isn't their duty to serve all the community not only those who have decided to "protest", What about the majority who want to enjoy their freedoms, what little there's left to enjoy in these virus days and what about protecting those who've had their possessions and livelihoods destroyed don't they deserve protection.

[Whistler]

Here's the problem for the cops;

Mixed in with the peaceful protesters are local gang members from the ghetto's, (the ones doing the rioting, looting etc)
These people will kill for a packet of smokes.
They are just taking advantage of the situation for some personal gains at any cost.
They don't care about George Floyd, or "Black lives matter", at all.

So, if you were a cop, facing these thugs mixed in with normal, non violent people, what do you do?
Give everyone the benefit of doubt?
Or protect yourself from any unwanted, and possible deadly consequences to yourself.

Put yourself in their shoes.
They got families too, ya know.

Yeah, shoot first, ask questions later.

or

If you see somebody who is not doing anything wrong, leave them alone, if you see somebody doing something illegal, arrest them.

[mickojak]

All the gang members will be carrying guns or knives.
Think about it.

Its so easy to sit in you cosy house and judge

[vlad]

So all the Woman I have seen on the news looting are carrying and are gang members mick ??

[Whistler]

All the gang members will be carrying guns or knives.
Think about it.

Its so easy to sit in you cosy house and judge

Not a lot of difference to cops patrol in any busy city. People are walking up and down the street, most of them going about their business. Some on those same people may be up to no good.

In the case of protests, there are typically large squads of well protected, armed well trained support police trained to respond to incidents.

Protesters marching peacefully, no problems.

Baddies showing issues like throwing bottles, bricks, breaking windows, carrying Molotov cocktails etc etc. Move in using all required force exactly as you have been trained to do.

What you don't do is shove 75 year old peaceful guys to the ground and crack their skulls, fire bullets and tear gas at peaceful law abiding people, don't fire rubber bullets at people fleeing tear gas, don't attack those who are clearly identified as PRESS, in short, only deal with troublemakers.

[GT93]

Many juries would be reluctant to convict cops because they would want cops to be free to use reasonable force. Cops would clearly have to cross the line to be convicted. Neck pressure for a minute might be fine but not for over 8 minutes with an obviously distressed victim.

[mickojak]

Wow,
Isnt Thailand so lucky to have such a perfectly knowledgeable superhero amongst our ranks.

I'll feel so much safer if trouble breaks out here

[maaka]

if they had all stayed home in the beginning due to covid, none of this would have happened. George wouldnt be dead, because George would be in lockdown back at home, but no, it seems to many Americans dont take kindly to being told what to do..I am not staying home y'all. **** the virus, aint going to get me..I am allowed my freedom under Article 1100x of the Constitution so I am gonna walk around and they cant do a thing..lets bloke the intersection in protest of loosing our freedom..hell I would have thrown the army in right there and then, and then today might not have happened..

[mickojak]

Go Maaka.
Spot on

[Doodoo]

As for the Peaceful 75 year old, in Buffalo that was injured, innocent I dont think so

He was in an area under curfew (he was breaking he law)
He is a known activist who has posted on June 3
"Protests are exempt from curfews"
He has retweeted negative comments regarding the police "US Police forces are the terrorist organization, not Antifa"

There are always 2 sides to a story and I dont think we have heard both as of yet

[jackspratt]

If he was breaking the law, the police were entitled to arrest and remove him - not assault him and send him to hospital with a cracked head.

He is also entitled to his opinion on the US police.

@maaka - send in the army ...... really?

[Doodoo]

If you are breaking the law "Buyer beware"
Yes an opinion but dont play him up as being a frail old 75 year old

As said 2 sides

[cjd01]

If he was breaking the law, the police were entitled to arrest and remove him - not assault him and send him to hospital with a cracked head.

He is also entitled to his opinion on the US police.

@maaka - send in the army ...... really?

Jack correct on both points
But on point 1
The police appeared to be on a move forward to disperse the crowd, my view is it wasn't the appropriate time for anyone to be taking the action he did it was always going to end this way it's not a perfect world of gentlemanly protests.

[mickojak]

Correct CJ,
They were marching in clear formation.
He walked toward them.
That's clear provocation in my book, and he reached out to touch one of them , which in this pathetic world, is classed as "assault"

He got assaulted back.

[GT93]

They could have taken him into custody with care or just moved around him and left the old dodder there. He was harmless. The cops aren't entitled to knock over 75 year olds even in these circumstances.

[mickojak]

But GT,
Seriously,
What are you doing at a protest at 75 years old.
If you haven't made your message to the world clear by that age, isn't it time to give up.

He's better off talking some young bucks to go protesting, then go fishing.
Safer too

Next thing ya know, Whistler will be outside waving the confederate flag

[Doodoo]

He should have been in THe Bunker with Donnie at his age he could have watched it on TV

I was working in Qatar and they had the League of Arab Nations Conference there on a Friday
When we got back to work a fella said to me in an excited tone "Oh, you should have been there!! Arafat, that guy from Libya oh, so many of the Arab Leaders!!!"
I said "Joe, did everyone have guns?" "Oh Yes so many guns" " Joe dont you think that would be a place NOT to go?"

You cant fix Stupid

[Sateeb]

As for the Peaceful 75 year old, in Buffalo that was injured, innocent I dont think so

He was in an area under curfew (he was breaking he law)
He is a known activist who has posted on June 3
"Protests are exempt from curfews"
He has retweeted negative comments regarding the police "US Police forces are the terrorist organization, not Antifa"

There are always 2 sides to a story and I dont think we have heard both as of yet

Oh that puts a totally different slant on things. Posting and tweeting, why the recalcitrant old duffer. He deserved it.

[jackspratt]

If you are breaking the law "Buyer beware"
Yes an opinion but dont play him up as being a frail old 75 year old

As said 2 sides

We do know he was (apparently) 75yo.

Do you know what his physical condition was prior to being assaulted by the police?

I don't, so didn't make any comment on that point.

It's certainly a lot worse now.

There are 2 sides in most issues, which I am sure Officer Chauvin will argue when he is tried for 2nd degree murder. In both these cases, however, the video evidence seems pretty clear.