ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

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Doodoo
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Doodoo » March 20, 2022, 12:44 pm

Wistle
We make ammonia from hydrogen and to make hydrogen we use natural gas not the other way around
As for dealing with the issoe 40 years ago well we cant do that either.
As for your statement "I subscribe to the belief that the biggest issue we face is not to move off fossil fuel, but to manage that process. It is not feasible to ditch every petrol, diesel or gas powered cars or generators, etc."
We dont have a choice to move off of fossil fuel as there wont be any in 40 years So that decision will be made for us

By u saying there is no silver bullet I agree there isnt But I certianly dont want to push it off to the side as you seem to be saying "OH well better luck next time "
AND 40 years is certainly NOT too far off as you said



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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Doodoo » March 20, 2022, 1:09 pm

JUst read that India has purchased 3,000,000 barrels of oil from Russia Sounds like a lot until you put it into perspective
1,000,000 barrels of oil would keep the auto traffic moving in the USA for 3.9 hours

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rick
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by rick » March 20, 2022, 4:30 pm

Just a few observations.
First, of course there will be oil and gas left in 47 years time. More oil and gas will be found (although probably not a lot), and as it becomes rarer the price will shoot up - this will make other energy sources more attractive, so consumption will fall.
Secondly, Ammonia is made from Nitrogen from the atmosphere and hydrogen ( i assume still the Haber process) - it doesn't matter where the hydrogen come from, currently gas is the cheapest source. When green hydrogen becomes cheaper and available, they will use that.

Change can happen. 30 years ago, UK was heavily dependent on coal to generate electricity - over 70% came from coal. Now it is 5%. Renewable sources provided 40% of Electricity in 2020, compared to just a few percent 30 years before. The big issue now is energy storage. In 30 years time, there is no reason why 80%, or more, of our electricity should not come from renewable sources - as long as the means to store it are in place. There is a way, just not enough will.
Transport is the biggest problem. ICE's are just so convenient, and we have been reliant on them for a 100 years. There are alternatives, but as whistler has said, managing that change is the issue. But if we do not start now, we will have a lot of money invested in ICE transport which will need replacing very quickly to meet a 2050 deadline (or even close to that).
Carbon capture and storage? Yeah, i am dubious that will be the answer, it is like sweeping your dust under the carpet.

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Whistler » March 20, 2022, 5:08 pm

Doodoo wrote:
March 20, 2022, 12:44 pm
Wistle
We make ammonia from hydrogen and to make hydrogen we use natural gas not the other way around
You should do a bit more reseach Doodoo before making definitive statements like this

https://www.pmc.gov.au/resource-centre/ ... onia-power
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Doodoo
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Doodoo » March 20, 2022, 5:30 pm

"As of 2020, the majority of hydrogen (∼95%) is produced from fossil fuels by steam reforming of natural gas and other light hydrocarbons, partial oxidation of heavier hydrocarbons, and coal gasification.[1][2] Other methods of hydrogen production include biomass gasification, zero-CO2-emission me" So once the gas is gone the majority of Ammonia is GONE
Please note 95% of the WORLDS hydrogen is from Fossil fuels or aleast that is what they say here and also in the 4 seperate facilities I worked in throughout the world. One needs hydrogen to produce Ammonia
Hopefully now Whistl you understand

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Whistler » March 20, 2022, 5:58 pm

Doodoo, you do hang on dont you? My comments about ammonia was not as a source of hydrogen, but as a chemical storage of energy.

step 1. Create Nitrogen and hydrogen, by directing high energy solar beams using parabolic mirrors, onto ammonia, we now have stored hydrogen.

step 2. To produce electricty, recombine the N and H gasses, lots of heat from the chemical reaction, create steam and drive a turbine. Now we have the ammonia back.

repeat over and over again.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/renewable-h ... oln-67209/

This is just one of many similar approaches for the use of ammonia.
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Barney » March 20, 2022, 7:41 pm

Now that brexit, trump and Wuhan are waining, as popular long winded threads for some, I can now see now and in the future all the UM climate experts raising their collective heads above the parapet and exchanging many many links on energy generation before the issue is resolved.
The vast majority of UM members will have well and truly fallen off the perch before the technology has taken any meaningful effect.
Knock yourselves out but I will just relax and enjoy what’s left cruising around in and on my petrol and diesel contraptions, actually all responsibility but no real care, but I do acknowledge there will be some who are affected with their stress levels rising as shown below during the transition.

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Doodoo
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Doodoo » March 20, 2022, 7:42 pm

And to get ammonia for this you need natural gas and to get hydrogen you need Natural gas which we wont have

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Whistler » March 20, 2022, 8:01 pm

Doodoo wrote:
March 20, 2022, 7:42 pm
And to get ammonia for this you need natural gas and to get hydrogen you need Natural gas which we wont have
I remember making hydrogen, using electrolysis in my high school chemistry lab without using natural gas, and that was half a century ago. All you need is water and electricity.

But fair enough Doodoo. You obviously know a lot more than all the chemical engineers and research project scientists in the world. Why are they wasting their time and energy, when in a simple telephone call to you can explain to them that they are wasting their time.

Question for you? We have ammonia now, but regardless 78% of the atmosphere is Nitrogen, and Hydrogen is one of the most common elements on earth. You still reckon we will never be able to make ammonia? You think the Haber-Bosch process (amongst others) that are used today to make ammonia, and does not require natural gas, are all rubbish?
Last edited by Whistler on March 20, 2022, 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Doodoo » March 20, 2022, 8:08 pm

"Question for you? We have ammonia now, but regardless 78% of the atmosphere is Nitrogen, and Hydrogen is one of the most common elements on earth. You still reckon we will never be able to make ammonia? You think the Haber-Bosch process (amongst others) that are used today to make ammonia, and does not require natural gas, are all rubbish?"

FISHING

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Doodoo » March 20, 2022, 8:14 pm

"The Haber process consumes 3–5% of the world's natural-gas production (around 1–2% of the world's energy supply)."
where will the world get this from Makro?

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by rick » March 20, 2022, 8:28 pm

The answer is green hydrogen when it is cheaper than methane. Unfortunately, change only really happens when tje economics are right.

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Whistler » March 21, 2022, 12:08 am

Doodoo wrote:
March 20, 2022, 8:14 pm
"The Haber process consumes 3–5% of the world's natural-gas production (around 1–2% of the world's energy supply)."
where will the world get this from Makro?
Poor old Doodoo, the original process started 113 years ago. Much changed now, plus many alternatives. I will not FISH anymore. Outright statement....you are talking through your hat, or another orrifice. You do not need natural gas to create Hydrogon. Pure and simple. that statement is WRONG!

The Siemens Green Ammonia the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Oxfordshire goes part of the way along the road to producing ‘green’ ammonia in that hydrogen is produced by electrolysing water and nitrogen is extracted from the air. The conventional Haber Bosch process then produces ammonia.
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Doodoo
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Doodoo » March 21, 2022, 12:39 am

:As of 2020, the majority of hydrogen (∼95%) is produced from fossil fuels by steam reforming of natural gas and other light hydrocarbons,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production
Sorry but my Math teacher taught me that 95% was a whole bunch

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by pepesgrill » March 21, 2022, 7:00 am

oh my , another spat. with the usual suspects

im steering clear. give wide berth as they say :-s

" but i had a chemistry play-set in middle school , don't you dare question me. i am the authority "

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by rick » March 21, 2022, 5:59 pm

Some of us were still playing with Chemistry and other science in our professional careers .....

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rick
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by rick » March 21, 2022, 8:51 pm

Seems the great barrier reef is bleaching again - and it isn't even an El Nino year (yet). And Antarctic sea ice is the lowest since satellite monitoring started 40 years ago. And, of course, the last 7 years have been the 7 warmest years on record.
This year?

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Whistler » March 21, 2022, 10:17 pm

rick wrote:
March 21, 2022, 5:59 pm
Some of us were still playing with Chemistry and other science in our professional careers .....
Rick,

Doodoo plays with his 20th century toy kit, utterly convinced that there will never be any progress, if you made hydrogen with a century old process, there is no way on God's green earth that there will ever be an improved or different process.
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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by Doodoo » March 21, 2022, 10:22 pm

Your at it again FISHING

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Re: ClimateChange - EndTime 2050 - Disturbing Report Sheds Light on

Post by GT93 » March 22, 2022, 12:27 pm

Barney wrote:
March 20, 2022, 7:41 pm
The vast majority of UM members will have well and truly fallen off the perch before the technology has taken any meaningful effect.
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I hope UM members aren't that ancient. Huge changes are already underway (see Rick's earlier comments about UK electricity). The price of renewables has been steadily and significantly falling.

And what's the chatter with nuclear fusion? After a false start or two, is that now a looming technological possibility?
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