Now officially a hero. =D>The US court of appeals has ruled that the bulk collection of telephone metadata is unlawful, in a landmark decision that clears the way for a full legal challenge against the National Security Agency.
A panel of three federal judges for the second circuit overturned an earlier ruling that the controversial surveillance practice first revealed to the US public by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden in 2013 could not be subject to judicial review...........
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... egal-court
Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
- jackspratt
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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
Well done Edward Snowden -
- jackspratt
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
It is the 10th anniversary of Snowden's brave revelations. Hopefully he is living comfortably with his wife and 2 kids, and can be proud of what he did in shining a light on the illegal acts of many intelligence agencies.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... s-in-exile
ps I really like the look the Poll adds to the forum.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... s-in-exile
ps I really like the look the Poll adds to the forum.
Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
Yes, I agree. I hope he's happy in Russia with his family.
'Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence'
~Reinhold Messner~
'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
~Louise Perica~
~Reinhold Messner~
'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
~Louise Perica~
Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
yes, a paragon of Liberty, free speech and whistle blowing who defected to one of the most repressive regimes in the world, received asylum, then accepted citzenship.. Oh, the evil United States.. I can only hopw Snowden, as a newly naturalized Russian is conscripted as his buddy Vlad's edict says will happen to dual national and naturalized Russians....
Dave
- jackspratt
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
At the moment, Snowden realistically has 2 choices about where he lives - relatively free in Russia, or in a US jail.
If there is a better, 3rd alternative, please let him know - I'm sure he will be all ears.
If there is a better, 3rd alternative, please let him know - I'm sure he will be all ears.
Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
he's relatively free in Russia because he defected and in my opinion was working for the FSB...
If he'd come back to the States when Obama was President he probably would have ended up with a pardon.... But, he stayed in Putin's Russia...
If he'd come back to the States when Obama was President he probably would have ended up with a pardon.... But, he stayed in Putin's Russia...
Dave
- Laan Yaa Mo
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
What happened to Doodoo's level headed comment?
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
Total traitor and FSB stooge. While it's true that he seems to have exposed some things going on that shouldn't have been -- a good thing -- he then (in the name of freedom and transparency!) fled to China and then Russia.
Besides the obvious contradictions in 1) not having the courage of your convictions to take a stand and then 2) fleeing to regimes so oppressive they make the worst of the U.S.'s actions look benign --what price do you think the Russians have required him to pay in order for him to stay there?
Pretty obvious, no? For years he has been regularly debriefed by them and is serving as a consultant to the FSB and likely the GRU.
Snowden is a disgusting, vile, traitorous hypocrite.
Besides the obvious contradictions in 1) not having the courage of your convictions to take a stand and then 2) fleeing to regimes so oppressive they make the worst of the U.S.'s actions look benign --what price do you think the Russians have required him to pay in order for him to stay there?
Pretty obvious, no? For years he has been regularly debriefed by them and is serving as a consultant to the FSB and likely the GRU.
Snowden is a disgusting, vile, traitorous hypocrite.
- jackspratt
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
Why would Obama have pardoned him if there was any inkling, or evidence even, that Snowden was working for the FSB?
That doesn't make sense.
That doesn't make sense.
- jackspratt
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
Perhaps it didn't help.
- Laan Yaa Mo
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
It's a difficult decision on Snowden. On the one hand, you can use the my country right or wrong argument. On the other hand, one can take the moral high ground and say he did the right thing. I know the West welcomed defectors from Communist countries as heroes. Using that latter criteria, shouldn't he be seen as a hero?
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.
Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
Can imagine his statue next to Putin's
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
He would have the moral high ground IF he revealed what he revealed and then stayed to face his accusers, like the Pentagon Papers guy. Instead, in the name of good governance, transparency, and internet freedom he seeks asylum in... first China and eventually RUSSIA? The examples par excellence of all he claimed to oppose? And why did he flee there? If he wasn't a Russian agent from the start, what price has Russia extracted for letting him stay there? He surely now actively works to do EVERYTHING he says he was against, helping the Russians build up their domestic and international surveillance capabilities, including a years-long debrief on what he knew of our systems.Laan Yaa Mo wrote: ↑June 9, 2023, 8:59 amIt's a difficult decision on Snowden. On the one hand, you can use the my country right or wrong argument. On the other hand, one can take the moral high ground and say he did the right thing. I know the West welcomed defectors from Communist countries as heroes. Using that latter criteria, shouldn't he be seen as a hero?
It's not a difficult decision at all. Not even a little. Traitor to the nth degree. Hang him high.
Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
He certainly is no hero. I would label him as a traitor as well as an attention *****.
- jackspratt
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
According to another (albeit flawed) hero via wikileaks, Snowden actually sought asylum from 21 countries.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... -countries
China was only one of them, and they were happy to boot him out of Hong Kong - times were very different in 2013 when Xi Jingping was just testing his dictatorial muscles. (As they were in 1971 with Ellsberg).
It always amuses me how many Americans swear by the protections/rights offered by their ancient constitution - until 1 or more of those protections/rights are illegally violated by the authority of the state under colour of "national security".
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... -countries
China was only one of them, and they were happy to boot him out of Hong Kong - times were very different in 2013 when Xi Jingping was just testing his dictatorial muscles. (As they were in 1971 with Ellsberg).
Any evidence to back up this speculation?He surely now actively works to do EVERYTHING he says he was against, helping the Russians build up their domestic and international surveillance capabilities, including a years-long debrief on what he knew of our systems.
It always amuses me how many Americans swear by the protections/rights offered by their ancient constitution - until 1 or more of those protections/rights are illegally violated by the authority of the state under colour of "national security".
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
So pleased you are amused! It's just one of the many services I provide. Another one is reading comprehension -- I actually said he would have had moral high ground had he not fled to the very countries that lead the world in doing exactly what he said was bad. To be more explicit, as it seems necessary, that means I agree that it was good that he exposed what appear to be violations of law.jackspratt wrote: ↑July 25, 2023, 8:34 pmAccording to another (albeit flawed) hero via wikileaks, Snowden actually sought asylum from 21 countries.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... -countries
China was only one of them, and they were happy to boot him out of Hong Kong - times were very different in 2013 when Xi Jingping was just testing his dictatorial muscles. (As they were in 1971 with Ellsberg).
Any evidence to back up this speculation?He surely now actively works to do EVERYTHING he says he was against, helping the Russians build up their domestic and international surveillance capabilities, including a years-long debrief on what he knew of our systems.
It always amuses me how many Americans swear by the protections/rights offered by their ancient constitution - until 1 or more of those protections/rights are illegally violated by the authority of the state under colour of "national security".
Evidence to back up my speculation? I guess if you live in a zero-information world about how Russia operates, or have been asleep your entire life, or you consume Kremlin-produced media, you'd look at my claim skeptically. But even a causal observer would view my position as probable, and 3 years of living in Russia up until last year make me pretty confident in what I said.
- Potamoi
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
Here are a couple of reference conversations for those that consume information visually/audibly:
More or less both sides represented here although the first one is just a clip.
More or less both sides represented here although the first one is just a clip.
I fear the man who drinks water and so remembers this morning what the rest of us said last night
Benjamin Franklin
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt
Maurice Switzer *(assumed)
Benjamin Franklin
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt
Maurice Switzer *(assumed)
Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
While we are (still) debating Snowden's possible altruism versus arguable treason, how about the 'Pentagon Papers' recently shared by airman 1st class Jack Teixeira?
'Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence'
~Reinhold Messner~
'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
~Louise Perica~
~Reinhold Messner~
'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
~Louise Perica~
Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)
texeiria was obviously a true doofus dweeb. The maturity of a 12 year old. Stealing secrets to share with his gaming buddies? Chastising them for not enthusiastically praising him for disclosing such information. Whadda losah..! Now, his entire chain of command was releived and the Intelligence Unit, an Air National Guard Wing was pulled from its Intel functions. His entire chain of command needs to do hard time. Texeiria will also get hard time... Questions as to why his unit had TS/SCI Codeword info avaialble to A1C's shows an utter disregard for security..
Dave