ClimateGate busts things wide open

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WBU ALUM
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by WBU ALUM » January 28, 2010, 7:35 pm

Updated January 28, 2010
London Times
The university at the center of the climate change scandal over stolen e-mails broke the law by refusing to hand over its raw data for public scrutiny.

The university at the center of the climate change scandal over stolen e-mails broke the law by refusing to hand over its raw data for public scrutiny.

The University of East Anglia breached Britain's Freedom of Information Act by refusing to comply with requests for data concerning claims by its scientists that man-made emissions were causing global warming.
Looks like things get more and more convoluted. Not surprised. That happens when deceit is involved.

Scientists in Climate-Gate Scandal Hid Data



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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by jackspratt » January 28, 2010, 7:50 pm

WBU ALUM wrote:
Updated January 28, 2010
London Times
The university at the center of the climate change scandal over stolen e-mails broke the law by refusing to hand over its raw data for public scrutiny.

The university at the center of the climate change scandal over stolen e-mails broke the law by refusing to hand over its raw data for public scrutiny.

The University of East Anglia breached Britain's Freedom of Information Act by refusing to comply with requests for data concerning claims by its scientists that man-made emissions were causing global warming.
Looks like things get more and more convoluted. Not surprised. That happens when deceit is involved.

Scientists in Climate-Gate Scandal Hid Data
Silly buugger - but doesn't change the science, does it.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by ronan01 » January 29, 2010, 6:52 am

What science Jack? It has been propaganda from the start. The lack of science is finally becoming evident - especially since the "climate scientists" are being forced to reveal their source data.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by WBU ALUM » January 30, 2010, 10:52 pm

Another revelation. Those pushing this agenda are losing more and more integrity by the minute. The stream of corruption and dishonesty is becoming endless.

Climate chief was told of false glacier claims before Copenhagen

The only thing that seems to be melting is the global warming "science".

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by Texpat » January 31, 2010, 12:39 am

Perhaps, WBU, but their intent to dig into you wallet was of the highest integrity.
They really meant it. I'm convinced.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by WBU ALUM » January 31, 2010, 2:01 am

Texpat wrote:Perhaps, WBU, but their intent to dig into you wallet was of the highest integrity.
They really meant it. I'm convinced.
Fellow Texan, do not confuse integrity with sincerity. :lol: I know they really meant it.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by WBU ALUM » February 2, 2010, 8:05 pm

And still more revealed ...

Leaked climate change emails scientist 'hid' data flaws
Phil Jones, the beleaguered British climate scientist at the centre of the leaked emails controversy, is facing fresh claims that he sought to hide problems in key temperature data on which some of his work was based.

A Guardian investigation of thousands of emails and documents apparently hacked from the University of East Anglia's climatic research unit has found evidence that a series of measurements from Chinese weather stations were seriously flawed and that documents relating to them could not be produced.
Lies, lies and more lies. Can we now, without hesitation, call them the Lying Liars Who Lie?

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by WBU ALUM » February 3, 2010, 11:06 pm

John Coleman, founder of the Weather Channel, in an hour-long television documentary titled "Global Warming: The Other Side," presents evidence that our National Climatic Data Center has been manipulating weather data just as the now disgraced and under investigation British University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit. The NCDC is a division of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Its manipulated climate data is used by the Goddard Institute of Space Studies, which is a division of the National Aeronautical and Space Administration.
There's almost as much evidence of lying and manipulation as there is snow on the ground with all of this global warming. :lol:

Global Warming Update

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by rjj04 » February 4, 2010, 2:38 am

Let's do a simple analysis of this "news."
1) The report said, more sensors were reduced from colder regions thus contributing to an increase in global temperatures.
No mention of how many of these were in colder regions. Was it 51% from colder regions and 49% from warmer? Was it 99% and 1%... what was it? Logical fallacy, suppressed evidence?

2) Let's assume that 100% of the withdrawn sensors were in colder climates, what would that mean? We have to use our minds here for a moment. Let's say that the globe was divided into 200x200 mile land surface grids. In each 200x200 grid, let's say there were 4 sensors placed randomly. If one new and more accurate sensor was placed in the center of each 200x200 grid, and the 4 randomly placed sensors were junked (or "ignored"), what would be the overall change? In one grid, perhaps the temperature from that one sensor would be reporting a slightly higher temperature. But since the old sensors were placed randomly it could just as well be that the new sensor reports a slightly colder temperature reading. Then in the grids next to that grid, the same thing could happen, could be higher or lower readings. But, over a large swathe of area, say a few hundred grids, the aberrations should go away (miraculously). In any case, they ought to error in a "random" direction... not all grids erring in one direction. Just because the number of sensors was reduced, does not necessarily mean the accuracy of the data was reduced.. it could be quite the opposite.


I said to myself that I wasn't coming back to this thread... perhaps I should not have done so...

This is more CON-ARTIST tactics!!

Fallacy of, presenting SELECTIVE information. Where is the data? Seems a file could be easily posted on the internet that had longitude & latitude of each sensor before, and after. Where is that data? Can't be more than a few kB of data... can't take up too much disk space.. hmmm

I would not doubt that most of the sensors removed from use were in colder, harsher climates. Anything surviving a Siberian winter has to be quite robust!! I would not want to go service one [-(

WBU ALUM, now you are believing Russians over Americans? haha [-X Oh yes, I forgot, they are fellow oil producers :razz: who certainly do not want to be told they need to refrain from digging up those US dollars .... I know, genetic fallacy.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by WBU ALUM » February 4, 2010, 4:07 am

rjj04 wrote:WBU ALUM, now you are believing Russians over Americans? haha [-X Oh yes, I forgot, they are fellow oil producers :razz: who certainly do not want to be told they need to refrain from digging up those US dollars .... I know, genetic fallacy.
You seem to always make an argument for me that is not an argument of mine. Then you try to make it a personal issue.

I post links from news articles. Those links talk about hiding data relative to climate change. If you don't agree with the article, then you don't agree with article. I didn't write it.

Oil? Dollars? Genetics? Never said a word about any of that -- for or against it. You did. Remember that. :-"

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by rick » February 4, 2010, 7:31 am

Well, have just seen the latest replot of the chinese data for moved weather stations, comparing old only to new. For cities, no discernable difference, for rural areas, 0.1 degrees cooler for new stations - no warming? Well, since 1985 temperatures always above long term average, rising trend, now about 1 degree higher. So warmer; what is causing it, who knows? Could be all the coal they burn. But it is getting warmer than 20 years ago. we have had a couple of cold winters here in UK, but i was still growing tomatoes until november last year; at least one extra month.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by ronan01 » February 4, 2010, 7:39 am

If every Annex 1 country (who account for about 50% of global emissions) complies with its “obligations” to the full, today’s carbon emissions will be reduced by about 7.5% between now and 2020, compared to business as usual.

If the trend of the past decade continues, with business as usual, about 2 parts per million by volume/year, or 20 ppmv will be added over the decade. 7.5% of 20 ppmv is 1.5 ppmv.

Global compliance with the Copenhagen Accord will therefore forestall about one-fiftieth of a Celcius degree of warming over the decade.

The cost of achieving an outcome so small that our instruments would not be able to measure it run into trillions of dollars.

Why rush into spending trillions to MAYBE forestall 0.02C of “global warming”, assuming of course that there is any “global warming”.

The “global warming” believers have already become “climate change” believers, I suspect that they will soon become very quiet, until they find the next suitable cause to be alarmed about. "Global warming" believers are basically the new chattering class.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by jackspratt » February 4, 2010, 8:10 am

WBU ALUM wrote:
John Coleman, founder of the Weather Channel, in an hour-long television documentary titled "Global Warming: The Other Side," presents evidence that our National Climatic Data Center has been manipulating weather data just as the now disgraced and under investigation British University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit. The NCDC is a division of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Its manipulated climate data is used by the Goddard Institute of Space Studies, which is a division of the National Aeronautical and Space Administration.
There's almost as much evidence of lying and manipulation as there is snow on the ground with all of this global warming. :lol:

Global Warming Update
I watched just enough of Coleman's documentary (Global Warming:The Other Side) to see him introduce as "one of our EXPERTS" non other than Christopher Walter Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, who was captioned as a "Science Advisor".

Monckton is generally regarded as a pompous loon, and has been caught lying on numerous occasions - including about his "science" credentials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe ... _Brenchley

In the grand tradition of the climate change skeptics, having discovered this minor fact, I now declare the whole climate change denier movement a hoax of monumental proportions. :D

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by BobHelm » February 4, 2010, 8:53 am

I saw on Aussie news last night that Christopher Walter Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley is currently in Aus, doing a "lecture tour". You are welcome to keep him Jack, as "pompous loon" is just about the most generous thing I have ever heard anyone with any intelligence call him. He likes to bill himself as "a former adviser" to Margaret Thatcher although that was from his connections rather than his intellect.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by rjj04 » February 4, 2010, 10:35 am

Excuse me WBU ALUM, but you posted an excerpt and a link to an article. That article was a clear case of using con-artist techniques to fool people. Then you wrote...
WBU ALUM wrote: There's almost as much evidence of lying and manipulation as there is snow on the ground with all of this global warming. :lol:
which is a indication to me that you wholeheartedly support the piece, rather than just presenting the article as yet
another piece of news.

But, then you attempt to disassociate yourself from said article...
WBU ALUM wrote: I post links from news articles. Those links talk about hiding data relative to climate change. If you don't agree with the article, then you don't agree with article. I didn't write it.
You either support con-artist techniques in communication, or you do not.

But, what gets my gander up the most is, that you are attacking science and the noble men and women that work in it. Scientists are of above average intelligence, in general. Yet these men and women choose to go into low paying careers, with the prospect of sitting in a cubicle for 20 or 30 years, or facing possible death by placing a sensor in the Middle of Nowhere, Siberia, and almost no recognition for their work. How many names of scientists can the average American recount, but they can tell you dozens of names of entertainers and politicians, and finance types. Scientists labor in pursuit of TRUTH. So, when, indirectly, you are accusing them of lying, I get perturbed. There has been, and always will be a scientist here and there that will forget about the TRUTH, and turn to "the dark side" :) they are but human, but those cases are few and far between... unlike other career fields.... and unlike previous occupants of the White House.

jackspratt... why did you have to bring up "His Lordship" again? Bad memories for me!! That man is very good at his work though... a master of scamming!!!!

Genetic Fallacy - Discrediting a claim because of its origin (genesis) when such a criticism is irrelevant to the claim. Such as when I incorrectly combine an appeal to humor fallacy with a genetic fallacy and try to connect a persons origin from a certain state in the US (say Texas),with his concern with the AGW issue. My bad! :razz: recursive fallacies :)

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by WBU ALUM » February 4, 2010, 11:27 am

Like I said, you seem to spend more time attacking me personally than you do anything else. You did it again. 8)

Because you disagree with my view on global warming hardly gives you any reason to call me a con artist. We just disagree, no matter how noble you think those peddling global warming are. No need to wave the "bloody shirt". :lol:

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by rjj04 » February 4, 2010, 12:31 pm

Yes, I made an "Appeal to Emotions", sympathy, for those noble scientists.. always making mistakes am I

Theory - Anthropogenic Global Warming
Authorities - Climatologists and scientists from other related fields
What is the consensus belief of the Authorities - AGW is a correct
Has anyone tried to disprove the claim - Yes, but no alternate theory presented has been shown to make sense
of the data.

I don't believe anybody on this thread is a climatologist? Using a shotgun fallacy to see what garbage will stick to whom in order to "spread the controversy" is not science.

Please show to us, well, to the "authorities" really, a computer model thats output correlates with the temperature data, and accurately can predict future data, and survives peer review, and you will be famous. Of course, such a model that ignores the anthropic aspect of the data is highly unlikely to succeed. But, be my guest. Until then, I'm going with the authorities on the subject.

P.S.
It is impossible for me to create such a computer model, I'm fairly ignorant on the subject, my knowledge of weather (not the climate) is limited to passing a few FAA tests :D Maybe His Lordshop Monckton can do it? NOT!! :-$

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by marshallb66 » February 4, 2010, 1:51 pm

Monckton is brilliant. He has as many followers as those who do not like him.
Scientists intelligent and noble!!! What a joke. Most scientists couldn’t lay a brick or build a roof over their heads. They make statements that most people can't understand nor prove otherwise and the sheep (ordinary people) believe them!!! Reminds me of religion.
Nothing the loony scientists recommend to the people who will make millions out of the scare mongering that is called Climate change, is going to change the climate either way.
3 billion Chinese and Indians will ensure that.

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by jackspratt » February 4, 2010, 2:09 pm

marshallb66 wrote:Monckton is brilliant. He has as many followers as those who do not like him.
Scientists intelligent and noble!!! What a joke. Most scientists couldn’t lay a brick or build a roof over their heads. They make statements that most people can't understand nor prove otherwise and the sheep (ordinary people) believe them!!! Reminds me of religion.
Nothing the loony scientists recommend to the people who will make millions out of the scare mongering that is called Climate change, is going to change the climate either way.
3 billion Chinese and Indians will ensure that.
Jack the Ripper, Mao Zhe Tung and Adolf Hitler were also brilliant - the latter pair also had plenty of followers.

Unfortunately for the Brilliant Mr Monckton, he has told so many lies, and been caught out so many times, that he has absolutely no credibility with anyone lucky enough to possess an IQ over 75 (other than his long suffering wife).

ps God gave the world bricklayers and carpenters, so that scientists can get on with science. :D

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Post by BobHelm » February 4, 2010, 2:18 pm

marshallb66 wrote:Monckton is brilliant. He has as many followers as those who do not like him.
That people are duped by Monckton does not make him correct. Do not forget Hitler had many followers too.
Gore is a supporter of Global Warming for reasons that have little to do with science and a lot to do with self promotion.
Monckton is similar for the anti-brigade. He is a self serving liar who has openly admitted to such in the past.
To call such a man "brilliant" and then propose any argument that he supports is self defeating for any reader who is remotely intelligent.
Whatever anyone's beliefs on the matter to not understand that there are self serving charlatans on both side of the divide is foolish indeed...

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