Thailand's Police

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Drunk Monkey
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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Drunk Monkey » August 29, 2021, 10:40 am

Back to Jo Ferrari case , updates as of last night ..it appears his lawyer has now instructed him to plead not guilty on all charges even though he did confess over the phone on live TV .. apparently according to his legal team both the video tape and the subsequent confession are admissable in court as the video wasnt evidence gathered by a legal body/method ie police and the confession via phone is by law illegal... the 2 day "on run" obviously gave him and his advisors enough time to best plan the path and as Tam says circle the wagons.. even down to not seeing the plate on the car that dropped him off as to not involve that person.. defo smelling a rat but as previously predicted he and his team will walk regardless of public outcry.

As much as i agree with the war on drugs there has to be limits and torture and murder surpass those limits.

TIT


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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by tamada » August 29, 2021, 4:11 pm

chopperjoey wrote:
August 29, 2021, 7:58 am
Earnest wrote:
August 29, 2021, 5:55 am
Niggly wrote:
August 28, 2021, 10:23 pm
Interesting find 👍
Yes, quite a good series.
Series like that are just entertainment, made by westerners, for a western audience, viewed with that western attitude, and with the predictable western opinion.

How about "walking around on the street, day or night, in Udon Thani or the big city Bangkok, in this neighborhood, or any neighborhood."
Your experience will be one of total safety. THE OPPOSITE of many European and American cities. Western governements and their justice system and their police CAN NOT and WILL NOT provide safety on public roads.
Lets keep it short, the safety we all take for granted daily, in our homes (we dont have to fear for armed home invasions so common in America) and in public spaces like streets, is the direct result of the work of the Thai police. They are the ones who keep the streets safe and clean.
Good job! I dont need a BBC documentary to form an opinion, reality what i experience myself carries more weight.
A friend of mine, a police detective in New Yersey (now a former) once visited a police seminair in Thailand, and he had very positive experience and praised the Thai police. (unlike cops in Mexico, but thats another story..)
I would agree that stumbling home legless from Soi Sampan at two in the morning isn't anything as perilous as getting a flat tire in daylight in Greenspoint, Houston. But that has absolutely bugger all to do with a professional and caring police force which neither Houston or Thailand has. The fact that the RTP don't mess around much with farangs unless we are seriously in the wrong or seriously in their face doesn't mean they have a similar laissez-fairs attitude towards their fellow Thai citizen. They have to be bribed to do the most routine and mundane things. Filing the most fundamental of reports needs a financial incentive. That's how they work.

Safe and clean my arse.
'Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence'
~Reinhold Messner~

'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
~Louise Perica~

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Earnest
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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Earnest » August 29, 2021, 4:30 pm

No worries but I'll pass on checking how safe and clean your bottom is, Tam.
chopperjoey wrote:
August 29, 2021, 7:58 am
Good job! I dont need a BBC documentary to form an opinion, reality what i experience myself carries more weight.
Well, that's good to know, Chopper, a man must always form his own opinions and not be swayed by the media but you really should watch it as it's rather good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... -in-a-firm

Right, back to dodgy coppers with fast cars, Jack, I'm off to do my knitting.
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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by AlexO » August 29, 2021, 4:31 pm

I think quite a few contributors have missed the point of this murder. It was not to punish a drug dealer but to extort more money from the dealer. Do you think that if he agreed to pay the additional amount based on a photograph of a much larger stash (allegedly) the dealer would have gone up in smoke, cause of death 'probably a drug overdose' or would he be walking about distributing his wares to the youth and others that make Thailand such a 'safe and clean' Country. Just as an aside we had a police sweep through our village this week. About 40 RTP rounded up most of the youths in the village and tested them for drugs. About 30 odds tested positive, biggest worry is there was one 11 year old and two 12 year olds tested positive for Yabba. Think Tams final statement says it all.

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by tamada » August 29, 2021, 4:46 pm

Earnest wrote:
August 29, 2021, 4:30 pm
No worries but I'll pass on checking how safe and clean your bottom is, Tam.
chopperjoey wrote:
August 29, 2021, 7:58 am
Good job! I dont need a BBC documentary to form an opinion, reality what i experience myself carries more weight.
Well, that's good to know, Chopper, a man must always form his own opinions and not be swayed by the media but you really should watch it as it's rather good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... -in-a-firm

Right, back to dodgy coppers with fast cars, Jack, I'm off to do my knitting.
I particularly liked the bit about "reality what I experience myself" and qualifies it with some friends opinion on Thai policing based on attending a one-off police seminar.

Can you mix plain and pearl yet?
'Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence'
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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Drunk Monkey » August 29, 2021, 10:08 pm

New rumours ov body doubles used as Jo is moved

YCMTSU
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8 minutes is the point of lift off !!!!!!!

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by chopperjoey » August 30, 2021, 12:50 pm

tamada wrote:
August 29, 2021, 4:11 pm
chopperjoey wrote:
August 29, 2021, 7:58 am
Earnest wrote:
August 29, 2021, 5:55 am
Niggly wrote:
August 28, 2021, 10:23 pm
Interesting find 👍
Yes, quite a good series.
Series like that are just entertainment, made by westerners, for a western audience, viewed with that western attitude, and with the predictable western opinion.

How about "walking around on the street, day or night, in Udon Thani or the big city Bangkok, in this neighborhood, or any neighborhood."
Your experience will be one of total safety. THE OPPOSITE of many European and American cities. Western governements and their justice system and their police CAN NOT and WILL NOT provide safety on public roads.
Lets keep it short, the safety we all take for granted daily, in our homes (we dont have to fear for armed home invasions so common in America) and in public spaces like streets, is the direct result of the work of the Thai police. They are the ones who keep the streets safe and clean.
Good job! I dont need a BBC documentary to form an opinion, reality what i experience myself carries more weight.
A friend of mine, a police detective in New Yersey (now a former) once visited a police seminair in Thailand, and he had very positive experience and praised the Thai police. (unlike cops in Mexico, but thats another story..)
I would agree that stumbling home legless from Soi Sampan at two in the morning isn't anything as perilous as getting a flat tire in daylight in Greenspoint, Houston. But that has absolutely bugger all to do with a professional and caring police force which neither Houston or Thailand has. The fact that the RTP don't mess around much with farangs unless we are seriously in the wrong or seriously in their face doesn't mean they have a similar laissez-fairs attitude towards their fellow Thai citizen. They have to be bribed to do the most routine and mundane things. Filing the most fundamental of reports needs a financial incentive. That's how they work.

Safe and clean my arse.
at least you admit that Udon Thani (and Thailand in general,perhaps?) is safe, while in the usa 24 - 7 you just cannot feel safe.

we differ though that i atribute this to the profesionalism of Thai police, and you atrib8te this general safety in Thailand to....?

Filing a report needs a financial incentive... i dont see anything wrong with that.

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by chopperjoey » August 30, 2021, 1:08 pm

AlexO wrote:
August 29, 2021, 4:31 pm
I think quite a few contributors have missed the point of this murder. It was not to punish a drug dealer but to extort more money from the dealer. Do you think that if he agreed to pay the additional amount based on a photograph of a much larger stash (allegedly) the dealer would have gone up in smoke, cause of death 'probably a drug overdose' or would he be walking about distributing his wares to the youth and others that make Thailand such a 'safe and clean' Country. Just as an aside we had a police sweep through our village this week. About 40 RTP rounded up most of the youths in the village and tested them for drugs. About 30 odds tested positive, biggest worry is there was one 11 year old and two 12 year olds tested positive for Yabba. Think Tams final statement says it all.
i for one didnt miss that point. its a strategy, keep one dealer around, extort him and control him and make him an informer. Its a practical strategy and it works.

Thai Royal Police doing a village sweep. Well, WOULD THAT EVER BE POSSIBLE IN THE USA???? no way the incompetent police would do such a thing. A sweep like this means the RTP takes hard drug abuse EXTREMELY SERIOUS, is on top of it, and we can be sure they extracted information from these youth WHO IS THE DEALER. He will be, by now, in jail.

Again, i dont need a biased sensational bbc doc to educate me. i see how the thai police picks up suspicious drug users and take care of it. in contrast, in america and western countries drug addicts are free to roam the streets..
i also did see various times undercover police at work. In the west petty crime is tolerated. california? you can shoplift up to 900 us$:and ITS NOT A CRIME but a simple felony.
Here in Thailand criminals are still viewed and treated as criminals, even "mostly peaceful crimes".

Its thanks to the profesionalism and hard work of the RTP that Thailand is a safe country.
I know, most of you will say i wear pink glasses or i am naieve. I would say, people wrongly stereotype Thai police through their western superiority lens and simply fail to see the facts. A bit unfair, bc we all enjoy the safety in Thailand (a safety our own country doesnt give us) yet "we" will never ever give credit for that to the Thai police. "We" are stuck in the Thai poluce is corrupt Thai people are dumb Thai system is backward, etc" kind of attitude.

YES Safe And Clean, it is.

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Earnest » August 30, 2021, 5:38 pm

chopperjoey wrote:
August 30, 2021, 1:08 pm
Again, i dont need a biased sensational bbc doc to educate me.
Ah, you watched it then, Chopper? Good man! Although, I would caution labelling everything the Beeb does as biased, their weather reports are rather good. The series was more historical rather than perpetuating a political message and the people under scrutiny went to prison. But it's useful in demonstrating how other policemen will protect their corrupt counterparts.

Your argument on working with corrupt Thai policemen is flawed though, isn't it, Chopper? One day, that corruption may work against you rather than for you.
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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by tamada » August 30, 2021, 6:18 pm

chopperjoey wrote:
August 30, 2021, 12:50 pm
tamada wrote:
August 29, 2021, 4:11 pm
chopperjoey wrote:
August 29, 2021, 7:58 am
Earnest wrote:
August 29, 2021, 5:55 am
Niggly wrote:
August 28, 2021, 10:23 pm
Interesting find 👍
Yes, quite a good series.
Series like that are just entertainment, made by westerners, for a western audience, viewed with that western attitude, and with the predictable western opinion.

How about "walking around on the street, day or night, in Udon Thani or the big city Bangkok, in this neighborhood, or any neighborhood."
Your experience will be one of total safety. THE OPPOSITE of many European and American cities. Western governements and their justice system and their police CAN NOT and WILL NOT provide safety on public roads.
Lets keep it short, the safety we all take for granted daily, in our homes (we dont have to fear for armed home invasions so common in America) and in public spaces like streets, is the direct result of the work of the Thai police. They are the ones who keep the streets safe and clean.
Good job! I dont need a BBC documentary to form an opinion, reality what i experience myself carries more weight.
A friend of mine, a police detective in New Yersey (now a former) once visited a police seminair in Thailand, and he had very positive experience and praised the Thai police. (unlike cops in Mexico, but thats another story..)
I would agree that stumbling home legless from Soi Sampan at two in the morning isn't anything as perilous as getting a flat tire in daylight in Greenspoint, Houston. But that has absolutely bugger all to do with a professional and caring police force which neither Houston or Thailand has. The fact that the RTP don't mess around much with farangs unless we are seriously in the wrong or seriously in their face doesn't mean they have a similar laissez-fairs attitude towards their fellow Thai citizen. They have to be bribed to do the most routine and mundane things. Filing the most fundamental of reports needs a financial incentive. That's how they work.

Safe and clean my arse.
at least you admit that Udon Thani (and Thailand in general,perhaps?) is safe, while in the usa 24 - 7 you just cannot feel safe.

we differ though that i atribute this to the profesionalism of Thai police, and you atrib8te this general safety in Thailand to....?

Filing a report needs a financial incentive... i dont see anything wrong with that.
There are bits of Udon Thani that I definitely would not feel safe wandering about at night. This goes for just about everywhere in Thailand these days, especially with the increase in arbitrary and violent ya-baa infused crime. I lived in the US for the best part of 12 years and the crime-free areas are far, far more prevalent than the 'no go' neighborhoods that fuel the great 'USA is unsafe 24-7' myth.

Therefore I don't kid myself for one minute that it is safer here in Thailand. For example, I have personally experienced the same amount of house breaking and theft in the US as I experienced in Thailand: both done twice. However, the only instance of being the victim of personal violence was in Thailand from a Thai. The police said we both had to pay (but I had to pay more). I had one legitimate moving traffic violation in the US and I probably have had the same in Thailand. But the dozens of illegal roadside shakedowns here are unmatched. Never had that in the US or any western country where you claim, "...their justice system and their police CAN NOT and WILL NOT provide safety on public roads."

People still have to pay the police to either force or drop 'charges' after a car accident. Yes, car insurance has taken most of the heat out of that one but as far as the locals (and the police) are concerned, outside of the insurance companies compensation at some future date, someone always needs to pay someone right now and the police take their cut for facilitating these 'agreements'.

My father was a career constable in the UK and my maternal grandfather did his volunteer police service guarding the Liverpool docklands during WWII. They were real policemen. The local ones aren't.
'Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence'
~Reinhold Messner~

'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
~Louise Perica~

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by AlexO » August 30, 2021, 8:00 pm

i for one didnt miss that point. its a strategy, keep one dealer around, extort him and control him and make him an informer. Its a practical strategy and it works.

Thai Royal Police doing a village sweep. Well, WOULD THAT EVER BE POSSIBLE IN THE USA???? no way the incompetent police would do such a thing. A sweep like this means the RTP takes hard drug abuse EXTREMELY SERIOUS, is on top of it, and we can be sure they extracted information from these youth WHO IS THE DEALER. He will be, by now, in jail.

Again, i dont need a biased sensational bbc doc to educate me. i see how the thai police picks up suspicious drug users and take care of it. in contrast, in america and western countries drug addicts are free to roam the streets..
i also did see various times undercover police at work. In the west petty crime is tolerated. california? you can shoplift up to 900 us$:and ITS NOT A CRIME but a simple felony.
Here in Thailand criminals are still viewed and treated as criminals, even "mostly peaceful crimes".

Chopper
Keeping an illegal drug supplier "around" so you can extort him/her for personal gain is a serious crime and is not what you term a practical strategy as the users still have a supply of drugs at probably an increased price (to cover the cost of the police extortion) and in the majority of cases these users have to resort to criminal activities to fund their habits.
I would love to see your explanation of how the RTP "pick up suspicious drug users" except at their cash collection road checks. I have seen plenty of Thai's off their faces walking about Udon and surrounding villages.
Just for the record there is no such thing as a "simple felony" a felony is a serious crime.

A felony is traditionally considered a crime of high seriousness, whereas a misdemeanor is regarded as less serious.[1] The term "felony" originated from English common law (from the French medieval word "félonie") to describe an offense that resulted in the confiscation of a convicted person's land and goods, to which additional punishments including capital punishment could be added.
Agree that all crimes are treated as serious in Thailand, thats why the prisons are full of poor people who could not pay the required amounts to the RTP and their masters to have the charges dropped.

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by jackspratt » August 30, 2021, 8:49 pm

I suspect chopper's views on this issue are guided by a combination of limited experience outside the US; an "I'm all right Jack" attitude while living in Thailand; and as Alex put it so well "I think quite a few contributors have missed the point of this murder. It was not to punish a drug dealer but to extort more money from the dealer."

The bigger, and more important picture, definitely escapes some.

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Earnest » August 31, 2021, 4:42 am

Ok, I get it, although I find it hard to understand how ex-pats are able to defend this extent of graft. The extent where a policeman can buy a portfolio of high performance cars; it's something only footballers and rock stars do in Blighty.
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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Khun Paul » August 31, 2021, 7:09 am

Many of you miss the other point is that to do a Village Sweep, ( which I have never seen ) also requires the headman to be involved, it may be him, that has orchestrated the search in the first place.
What I do know is that the RTYP have Little Black Books in which Drug dealers names etc are kept and when information is required they are the go to people , as their actions would mean a spell in Bangkok Hilton of they did not help .

Thailand safe, yes compared to the average large town in the UK . By comparison but most of us take care of our property and security far more than in the UK I feel as well.

RTP doing a good job, well I know a few, most are reasonably good but their thought processes regarding payment for services often make me comment, as they cannot understand the UK Police do all that for free.

Oh well generally I have no complaints about them apart from scams on Road users, .

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Drunk Monkey » August 31, 2021, 7:13 am

jackspratt wrote:
August 30, 2021, 8:49 pm
I suspect chopper's views on this issue are guided by a combination of limited experience outside the US; an "I'm all right Jack" attitude while living in Thailand; and as Alex put it so well "I think quite a few contributors have missed the point of this murder. It was not to punish a drug dealer but to extort more money from the dealer."

The bigger, and more important picture, definitely escapes some.
Following this on the Thai media again yesterday with more CCTV footage from the area and hospital where it appears cause of death may have been changed .. images of the police team taking the dead guy to the hospital then Jo arriving to sweep up.
Different amounts on the quantity of drugs the guy had as it seems he was tortured and accidently murdered (on camera) to not only extort money but also to give up the location of more drugs and names so police could protect the local community .. bizarrely the drugs are now missing and no one has seen them ?????
Im still predicting this case will soon become old news and drift away and by the time it gets to court and then appeal court any remaining sentence will have been covered with the remand time served and good behaviour . admitting and or saying sorry... as previously noted it certainly looks like its not the first time this plastic bag on head has been done and numerous others in the area now coming forward about extortion towards them or a family member.

The luxury car side of the story is very interesting with lots of high up people involved who must be nipping their bottom cheeks a wee bit.

I would imagine there has been a mad rush at police stations all over the country to wipe cctv memory cards and have instant on /off buttons fitted plus checking docs on any recent imported car purchases.

Jo wedding is still off ...for now.
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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by tamada » September 1, 2021, 4:01 am

According to the Thai Enquirer, this is leading to a surge in applicants to join the RTP.

NB: Turn on your satire detectors.

Insider trader quits stocks for police force for better impunity, more lucrative options

“Look insider trading and manipulating the stock market is lucrative but all that work and my nickname is only “Mercedes Steve,” said illegal trader Aowngern “Mercedes Steve” Namsakul.

“I want to be Ferrari Steve and the only way I can do that in this country is to join politics or the police force.”


https://www.thaienquirer.com/31846/siam ... e-options/
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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Stoeger » September 1, 2021, 10:57 am

I have been coming to Thailand for over 20 years with the bulk of the time spent in Udon Thani!

In my younger, bachelor days, I hit about 3 or 4 bars a day 7 days a week talking to my farang friends from different countries and eyeballing the more beautiful bar girls! I had to consume over a 100,000 Leo beers during that time! Over the next several years, some of my friends either disappeared, left Thailand or died! Also, it seemed that most of the strikingly attractive girls disappeared as well even though many more (too many more) bars were built! When the Thai economy tanked in 2008, many of the young lookers migrated to Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket among other bigger cities to make money to send back to their families in Udon Thani! After that, Udon Thani was mostly left with an older assortment of ladies which changed the bar-hopping dynamic compared to the old days of an abundance of very beautiful but, very young girls! It seemed that many of them had a young baby from a Thai guy who boogied leaving the parents to take care while the daughter worked for 100 - 200 THB a day!

If you spend any significant time in Thailand, you immediately become aware that the Thai culture is not the same as what you left in your home country! While there are various traffic laws, there is little to no active, sincere inforcement unless there is a blatant violation resulting in an accident! Thais are very bad and discourteous drivers and got voted "worst drivers in the world"! They are all in a hurry, use sidewalks, go against traffic, drive between cars in traffic, run red lights, drive too fast night with no headlight or tail light, at least 50% drive drunk and jump in line to the front at a traffic light! I had a 750 cc Honda Super Magna in Thailand and the mental midgets would try to race me in their 125 cc scooters! Because of the Thai driver's mindset, there are many fatal accidents and unnecessary injuries each year especially during Songran!

Regarding whether or not Thailand is dangerous, it depends upon how careless you are, how stupid you act or how drunk you get! Many a mouthy farang have been "neutralized" by a gang of skinny little Thai guys who happen to know some Moi Tai martial arts, have some weapon or are simply born meaner than a junkyard dog! Irregardless of the country you are in, walking around at 4 AM when you should be sleeping sometimes will not end well! It is all about personal demeaner and maintaining "situational awareness" of any impending threats! With Thai guys, they will smile at your bad judgment to confront them but, size doesn't matter to them when you step outside and are greeted by 8 Thai guys who are not there to give you a "wai" and a "sawasdee kap"! The phrase "don't let your mouth write checks your body can't cash" is quite appropriate!

No doubt, Thailand is corrupt in many areas and it is a "pay to play" society where more powerful friends can overcome the less powerful when dealing with the police! It is a well-known fact that the city police are told to shakedown both Thais and farangs, especially toward the end of the month! The Chief and upper echelon will split the proceeds so they can buy that new watch or new car or frequent a nice restaurant! Most bars and some restaurant owners have to "donate" 1,000 THB every month to the police for "tea money"! If they refuse, different kinds of bad luck can occur! No tipoff about an impending police raid! Confiscation of equipment! Arrest of some staff! No renewal of a business license, mysterious fire, etc.! This is the cost of doing business in Thailand! In democratic western countries, this behavior would be construed as "bribery or extortion" and be very illegal! It can be debated pro and con about whether Thailand hates farangs, intentionally hassle us with police dragnets and checkpoints and really want us to leave their country! This is notwithstanding the fact that us farangs spend a boatload of money every year doing what we do and, if married or not, support many Thai family members in the process!

So happens most of my friends are police, mostly Border Police, a few City Police, one Highway Police and one Tourist Police! It helps that my wife is a Major in the city police, having been in the Border Police 12 years and the Tourist Police for 1 year! She was an airborne ranger accumulating over 300 parachute jumps until I convinced her to quit jumping out of perfectly good airplanes! We lost the jump pay every month but, that's better than losing a wife! She is my bodyguard, confidant, loving spouse and best friend and is 100% honest! She doesn't extort or bribe Thai citizens or farangs, is a devout Buddhist and goes out of her way to help people! I tell people that "I married a real man"! No doubt that I am a lucky guy!

Jon H. Stoeger
CDR USN-retired

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by leterry60614 » September 2, 2021, 6:48 am

Do you want to talk about proven corruption on a grand scale? Let’s start with Wells Fargo or Purdue Pharma in the USA.

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by Khun Paul » September 2, 2021, 6:56 am

leterry60614 wrote:
September 2, 2021, 6:48 am
You want to talk about corruption on a grand scale ? Let’s start with Wells Fargo and Purdue Pharma in the USA.
We could but as this post is about Thailand's Police rather a pointless observation

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Re: Thailand's Police

Post by leterry60614 » September 2, 2021, 10:44 am

Pointless… take a hold of yourself!

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