Police corruption

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lee
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Police corruption

Post by lee » August 19, 2009, 6:15 pm

Richard wrote:I am an Englishman with a Thai wife and we have been on holiday here in Thailand for the last five weeks. I'm a teacher in the UK and so we are able to spend long summer vacations here. My wife is from Udon Thani but this year we decided to hire a car and see as much of Thailand as possible. We hired a brand new pickup and arranged full insurance cover and in five weeks have covered over 4,000 kilometres, which has included driving from Udon to Hua Hin, Bangkok, Koh Chang and back up to Udon.

While our holiday has been wonderful there has been one aspect that has put me off driving in Thailand ever again. We have been stopped by the police eight times. With six of those I have been fined for a variety of motoring offences including speeding, not carrying the vehicle registration document and a minor traffic violation in Bangkok.

However, only once have these fines been legitimate and paperwork issued. All the other fines have been reduced amounts paid to the officer who stopped us to avoid me having to relinquish my licence and pay a more expensive but legitimate fine at a location way off our course. In other words, a bribe.

I was fined 400 baht on the way to Koh Chang for speeding but was well under the 90kph speed limit. The police didn't even have a radar or any proof I was speeding. I was simply stopped, told I was doing over 90kph and asked for 400 baht. I paid, of course, as being a foreigner I had no wish to get into any further trouble, but this is blatant corruption by the police. No paperwork is issued and the policemen in question keep their hands well inside the car when receiving their bribe so as not to be seen taking money.

It's not just me who was stopped. The false speeding violations were aimed at all drivers who approached the checkpoint _ 400 baht is quite a lot of money for me to pay out on a false charge, but for a Thai, it must be equivalent to a day's wages. Do the police have no conscience? How do they sleep at night knowing that they are exploiting both foreigners and their own people?

A policeman's income in Thailand must be equivalent to a doctor or lawyer's salary because of this corruption. I am disgusted by this as are my Thai family who are clearly intimidated by the police here and frightened to question their behaviour. Is this a secret? Is the government aware? Everyone I speak to, whether Thai or farang has experience of such treatment by the police so why isn't anyone doing anything about it?

This corruption is ruining Thailand's reputation. This is not the only action I will be taking about this matter and I think next year our family holiday destination will be somewhere quite different.

RICHARD
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... corruption

I know the feeling, I have been stopped many times whilst doing nothing wrong.

Is there such a thing as in-vehicle cctv? :-k



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BobHelm
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Re: Police corruption

Post by BobHelm » August 19, 2009, 6:42 pm

Yes, police in States & UK have it..it records lots of other things as well as pictures - like time & date, vehicle speed etc.
Not cheap to introduce the proper version I imagine, but embarrassing for anyone who stopped you.

People complain about these stops, but very few take the necessary step of refusing to pay any "fine" and be taken to a police station & demanding that your lawyer be present.
If you pay a bribe to avoid the lawful course of events to proceed then that is your decision. To complain about it afterwards - YOU bribing an officer of the law is, in my opinion, very hypocritical.

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beer monkey
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Re: Police corruption

Post by beer monkey » August 19, 2009, 6:46 pm

A policeman's income in Thailand must be equivalent to a doctor or lawyer's salary because of this corruption.
Yes they do drive some nice trucks and live in decent house's, seem to live very well.....

CCTV....just get the Mobile fone out and start discreetly filming it, sure its been done lots of times already on the roads in Thailand.......Thais get as pi**ed as anyone else....when will it stop..can it stop.. No + No, not until they start at the top and work down, but will be a long time coming i would say.
Must be a lot of cash exchanging hands on a daily basis....a license to print money more or less, imagine having that power , you need a 'top-up' on your funds, go out and do a few stops...pay up or go the hard route, i have mentioned this a few times to bib...they just think its funny,,,,I pay we all laugh and 'smile' (whats behind the smile)...then i am on my way, till the next time.
Can You Dig It Dug.?

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trubrit
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Re: Police corruption

Post by trubrit » August 19, 2009, 6:56 pm

I have been driving in Thailand on and off for over 30 years. I can honestly say that although there were times I was stopped without committing an offence, never was I expected to make a contribution to the Chivas Regal fund unless I had committed a misdemeanor. I am normally treated with the utmost courtesy and waved on my way with a smile and a salute. On those occasions I have been a naughty boy I quite willingly slip a red one into the outstretched hand.The alternative of having to report to the local nick, where ever that may be, signing the form admitting the misdemeanor and paying 4xred ones , somehow doesn't seem to be a reasonable option.
Its really up to you. Don't want to pay. Don't speed and hog the outside lane, another common offence.
Ageing is a privilige denied to many .

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beer monkey
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Re: Police corruption

Post by beer monkey » August 19, 2009, 7:29 pm

Surely thats supporting it.....
Can You Dig It Dug.?

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trubrit
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Re: Police corruption

Post by trubrit » August 19, 2009, 7:32 pm

Maybe but its also being realistic. If you can't beat them , join them comes to mind.
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beer monkey
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Re: Police corruption

Post by beer monkey » August 19, 2009, 10:05 pm

Maybe they are too stressed out, they need to loosen up a little....The Traffic Police need a bit more of this, i am sure it would work well, maybe just do this routine once a day before they go on duty..

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xglz0omd7tg&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xglz0omd7tg&hl ... 2=0xfebd01" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Maybe you will see them in a differant light after watching it....and next time you are handing over some cash at the roadside, think of the video won't seem so bad then... :D
Can You Dig It Dug.?

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arjay
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Re: Police corruption

Post by arjay » August 19, 2009, 10:53 pm

Maybe some double standards creeping in here!! If it's corrupt, it's corrupt. You can either go along with it, or not. I don't.

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BKKSTAN
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Re: Police corruption

Post by BKKSTAN » August 20, 2009, 2:18 am

arjay wrote:Maybe some double standards creeping in here!! If it's corrupt, it's corrupt. You can either go along with it, or not. I don't.
When i first came to Thailand,I thought it was hilarious,the girl with me ,the first time.did all the talking,took 100 baht out of her purse ,rolled it up,slid it up the door into the cops waiting hands!I thought $2,fantastic because I had made an illegal Uturn in Bangkok!A few more mistakes in Bangkok on my part,I did the same thing everytime!

Then,I went through a series of pure extortion for about 1-2 weeks in Bangkok,including cops on the expressway stopping every car they could,saying 100 baht,taking it waving people on ,stopping the next car etc. etc,then what really started to change my attitude about it was the last toll plaza after Don Muang airport stops,everytime for about 6 times!After paying the toll a cop with wave me over,tell me of an infraction and demand 1000-1500 baht,giving me directions to ATM etc.,always settling for nothing less than 500 baht.I eventually started exiting the expressway at an earlier toll booth to avoid it.

Later,as I was interested in seeing Thailand by car,I started experiencing the ''money stops'' versus the ''inspection stops''.Never once,have I been asked for money at a regular ''inspection stop'',receiving either a wave through or a few questions ,nice smile and attitude,then a wave through.''The money stops'' are always one vehicle,2-3 cops on foot,stepping out in front of you as the wave you over,they discriminate,at times ,by out of area license plates and or noticing that a falang is driving.It seems that it is almost impossible to not run into these stops in every province.I have had 6 stops in one day,and experienced multiple stops on other ocassions!

Usually they will site speeding or driving in the right hand lane as the infraction,their demeanor varies from smiling polite ''where you go,where you from'' conversation,to stern power attitude(which usually means they are going for 500-1000 baht)!After seeing a couple of cars ''not stop'',driving around them and continuing and the cops doing nothing,I decided to do the same thing and have for the last 5-6 years(open highway ,obvious ''money stops'',never in the city)!I have never been pursued,and probably less than 5% of the time,they don't even look at me(I watch carefully for any action on there part,ready to pull over quickly and plead ignorance!Just doesn't happen,seems there only interest is the next ''victim'' and the fastest easiest way to the money!

As Trubrit says,most of the ''reasons'' given are driving in the right hand lane and speeding,but it doesn't make any difference whether it is true or not!If you pull into the right lane to pass and back into the left after passing,they will still use it.Of course their biggest hope is that you don't have the proper paperwork (registration,insurance or DL,because now they get the bigger bribe!

I understand that this is how they supplement their meager pay, that corruption is endemic within Thai society,that many times you can politely assert your ''experienced demeanor''in conversation and avoid paying and that the payments are relatively cheap compared to a legitimate infraction in our home countries,venturing to guess that 1-2 fines in the USA would be more than all the accumulated bribes in 12 years in Thailand!

I do believe that I would be open to ''no talk,100 baht each stop with a receipt good for a wave through at others on the same day effect''but the truth of the matter is ,I hate the power,intimidation and control exerted under such pretentious situations and on rare ocassions the ''time and inconvenience''!

So,''not stopping''has been my personal protest,ego satisfying event at a little part of the ''system'',right or wrong for my part,no rationalization needed and I am not recommending it to anyone.My wife still has her few minutes of shock and anxiety around each episode and I am diligent about watching the police for any aggressive action and ready to make a ''very fast pullover'' at the slighest negative reacton on their part!One never knows when that individual resentful and angry cop might be on duty!

I thought the statement by the Nat'l Police chief said it all last week!Paraphrasing,''I know nothing about the buying of positions within the police dept.!'' :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Police corruption

Post by Fawn » August 20, 2009, 4:04 am

lee wrote:I know the feeling, I have been stopped many times whilst doing nothing wrong.
Yes, I know what you mean great mate. You're poodling along with your brain in neutral when you get whammied by an overzealous and humourless soul. :lol:

No worries, I got stopped on the Nongbua Lamphu road last year because I was in the fast lane for too long. The Dragon and me were on our way to the school that Paul supports to donate some bits and pieces and were soon sent on our way when we informed the nice poleetman we were off to donate charity. How about that?

Going back to the original quote, I think that you must expect such an irritation if you choose to live in Thailand. It's going to take more than a horde of livid ex-pats to rid Thai culture of low level corruption.
Doug! Doug! Doug!

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BKKSTAN
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Re: Police corruption

Post by BKKSTAN » August 20, 2009, 8:02 am

Here is an interesting post from Postbag of the Bangkok Post: ''Police corruption II''
Published: 20/08/2009 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: NewsRe: "Police Corruption," Post Bag, Aug 19. Over the years, I have tried a variety of tactics to avoid the on-the-spot fines levied by our boys in brown. Mostly with a dismal success rate, though one stroke of genius resulted in a triumphant victory.

On a Bangkok expressway a speed radar gun was positioned about 1km before the toll gates. Ensuring I was travelling at my usual 75km/hr, I used my mobile phone to photograph my speedometer and odometer at that point.

I was stopped at the toll gates and told that I'd been caught doing 120km/hr and he had the notepad to prove it. I could take a ticket and pay a large fine at the police station, or for my convenience I could settle with 500 baht right there.

I showed the officer my photo and current odometer reading, and explained I would be absolutely delighted to pay at the police station, just make sure he wrote his name clearly on the ticket to keep things official and accurate. Then, seemingly, the notepad was discovered to be in error, and I was dismissed from the clutches of the law.

What perplexes me to this day however, is: should I have been fined for use of a mobile phone whilst driving?

COMPLIANT ROAD USER
I guess they could have fined him for using his cell phone while driving :lol: But also,I wonder how he is able to get the speed gun and odometer in the pic at the same time while driving :lol:

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pompui
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Re: Police corruption

Post by pompui » August 20, 2009, 8:28 am

Interesting replies to the OP and am wondering why this farang was paying 400 baht at the stops.If you can get away with 100 baht,fine,if not then the norm for me has been 200 for the so called traffic offences,400 baht or more if not using seatbelt but have time to belt up before being pulled over.
Sure I hate paying but they have it sussed. :mad:
Interesting how the thais that I have asked, what they think of it,usual answer corruption the norm,they pay but they say never stop at a night checkpoint.They also say the salary is for the wife,the teamoney for the mianoy 8)

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papaguido
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Re: Police corruption

Post by papaguido » August 20, 2009, 10:42 am

BKKSTAN wrote:
I guess they could have fined him for using his cell phone while driving :lol: But also,I wonder how he is able to get the speed gun and odometer in the pic at the same time while driving :lol:
Not the radar gun Stan, the speedometer :D

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Irish Alan
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Re: Police corruption

Post by Irish Alan » August 24, 2009, 10:48 pm

A couple of replies to the original letter.
Pleasant police

In response to Richard (Post Bag, Aug 19), I too am an Englishman with a Thai wife and we have been on holiday in Thailand for the last five weeks. I'm a teacher in the UK and so we are able to spend long summer vacations here as well.

We rented a pickup truck at the start of our holiday and a Toyota Vios for the last two weeks. We have covered destinations such as Bangkok, Buri Ram, Nakhon Sawan, Pattaya, Koh Chang, Rayong covering just over 4,000km.

We have been stopped a number of times in different places and each time I have presented my English driving licence. Mostly this has been enough, but a couple of places have asked for a passport; only twice have I been asked for my international driving licence. We have also driven through numerous checkpoints without being stopped.

Not once was I asked to pay a fine, nor was a fine or bribe even suggested. The police have been polite and courteous and thanked me each time as I pulled away.

Whilst I do understand that the police are corrupt in Thailand and bribes are commonplace, the payment of a fine may also be influenced by the presentation of documents and the way you interact with them. A smile and politeness can go a long way, even if you feel it unjust to be stopped.

I certainly will not worry about renting a car in Thailand again, as it opens up much more of the country and easily allows visits to places off the beaten track.

BEN L

___________________________________________________________________________________________

An act of corruption needs two parties

Richard (Post Bag, Aug 19), a foreign tourist who has just spent five weeks driving around Thailand and covered 4,000km, is complaining of having been arrested eight times by Thai police for various traffic offences, but having once paid a legitimate fine.

Richard is, in his own words, ''disgusted by the Thai police''. I am disgusted by Richard's hypocrisy. Of course, being arrested and fined by the police is never a pleasant experience and I understand why Richard is upset. But the point is, and Richard admits it, he did indeed commit traffic violations. If one commits traffic violations one should not be surprised to be fined.

What option do you have when arrested by Thai police for a traffic violation? As Richard also admits, he was given two options.

1. Do it by the book, meaning that Richard would have had to relinquish his driving licence to the police officer and go and pay the fine at the police station, which was ''way off course''.

Not only would Richard have had to make a detour to the police station, he would have had to wait until the arresting officer returned to the station to file the official paperwork and give Richard's driving licence to his colleague, which the police officer would have done only at the end of his shift.

2. Pay the fine on the spot, with no receipt. The advantages of this are: lower fine, no driving to the police station, and no time wasted spent waiting.

Richard (as would most motorists including myself) chose the second option, because it was more convenient for him at the time.

Now when Richard talks of disgust he should take a good look at himself in the mirror. It is very nice to complain about police corruption but the fact is, there must be at least two parties to an act of corruption.

RENE PHILIPPE

http://bangkokpost.net/opinion/opinion/ ... astic-show

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