Well looks like it can be done

Post by **Bump** » May 18, 2007, 11:40 pm

Hi All,

For those who are interested, the application process for Thai
Citizenship in my case went as follows:

Late 2003 - Picked up the checklist from the Police Headquarters on
Rama 1 Road

January 2004 - Took all my documents to the Police Department, in what
I thought was a word perfect application. However, since I was
applying in January and this being a new tax year, my tax returns from
the three preceding years were not enough. An oversight on my part, so
waited until I got my most recent tax retirn PNG 91 for 2003

March 2004 - Try again. This time my application was successfully
lodged. Paid the 5,000 Baht fee. Got fingeprinted. Signed my name (in
Thai) on dozens of firms. Took two Thai witnesses and later my wife
plus kids to show that they were real. Took forms issued to me by the
police department to immigration and my disctrict office. Later went
back to pick up the completed forms and take them back to the police
department

April 2004 - Thai language interview at the Police Department

September 2004 - Invited to the Interior Ministry. Showed them my work
permit, passport, alien registration certificate and certificate of
residence. Then, I was shown into a room with around 40 people
watching me. I was given a microphone and asked to sing the Thai
National anthem and Phra Baramee (the one they play in the cinema).
Yes, really. Managed to keep a straight face. Got interviewed in Thai
- basic Q&A about my circumstances. Around the same time, a group of
three officials from the Interrior Ministry visited my house to see if
my domestic circumstances were as described on my application form

Waited

Waited

February 2006 - Got the good news that the then Interior Minister Khun
Kongsak had approved my application

March 2006 - Got a letter to notify me of the above

Waited

(September 2006 - military coup)

Waited

November 2006 - Got the good news that an individual had countersigned my
application

December 2006 - One of the most memorable parts: the oath. Just
after an individual endorsed my application, I was asked to report to the
police department in business attire, armed with a candle, a lotus
flower and an incense stick. I then had to stand with these in my
hands while clasped in a wai, in front of a Buddhist shrine, repaeting
an oath of allegance to individual and country, and promising to be an
upright and law-abiding citizen.

Waited

Waited

April 2007 - Got the good news that the new Interior Minister Khun
Aree had announced in the Interior Ministry notices that a bunch of
applicants including me could now get Thai nationality

May 2007 - Got the paperwork and certificate from the Police HQ to
take to the disctrict office to get my ID card. Now I must return my
work permit, alien residence certificate and certificate of residence
to respective authorities as these are no longer needed. Now I can
apply for a passport

Told that my application was one of the faster ones these days.
Getting Thai Citizenship IS a pain in the arse - but look on the
bright side:

1) Now I can own what I buy, land, house, etc

2) No need for a work permit, and no restricted occupations. I can now
drive a Tuk Tuk for a living if the going gets tough in the IT
industry

3) Now I can get in free to the Grand Palace and pay the Thai rate for
national parks

4) I can own a business

5) I can get a Thai passport and visit countries like Laos and Vietnam
visa free

6) No need for that expensive old yearly Resident Return visa. No
limit to the amount of time that I spend out of Thailand without
losing my residency

7) I can use the Thai passport lane at the airport (shorter queues)

In my case, no need to give up my old nationality

9) I have a new Thai identity, forename and surname. Good for
travelling to places that dislike my country of origin

10) I think that I can even vote, although I am not sure who is worth
voting for

All you need to do is satisfy the following to apply:

http://phuketgazette.com/issuesanswers/ ... asp?id=759

Golden rules are:

1) Be patient and never get upset. The people that handle your
application do not make the rules and do not have any power over what
happens in the Interior Ministry

2) Get a coach. Not an expensive lawyer - just make friends with one
of the officials that handles your application

Post by **Bump** » May 18, 2007, 11:45 pm

Thai citizenship procedure
I

Post by **kevh** » May 19, 2007, 12:02 am

That is amazing ray,

As soon as you get your passport could you post comfirmation of this on the forum please?

The only reason i ask is that Thai immigration have confirmed numerous times that if a person holds a passport of a different nationality then a thai passport will not be issued to that person.

Even if they are a Thai citizen.

This was also confirmed by the British embassy when we applied for out half thai half english daughters passport.

The confirmed that if we wanted both thai and english passports then the thai government insist on you having the thai one first. As they do not allow thailand to be anyones 2nd nationality.

Crazy i know

So please let us know when you get the passport.

Kev

Post by **beer monkey** » May 19, 2007, 12:20 am

is this your application Ray or is it something of interest you spotted on another web site ?

Post by **neeemu** » May 19, 2007, 12:34 am

No chance of me ever getting 80,000 baht a month in Thailand! I struggle to get that in the UK!

Post by **tawan3** » May 19, 2007, 1:39 am

Congradulations, and welcome to Thailand. =D>

Post by **Paul** » May 19, 2007, 2:19 am

so... of the 48 people that considered themselves eligible (they just about walked on water and were able to satisfy ALL the requirements)but only 20% of them succeeded.

That is 20% of those who were completely eligible - how many thousands were not eleigible for a matter of one or two clauses ?

DONT watch this space !!!!

Post by **skipvice** » May 19, 2007, 3:42 am

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php ... pic=121353

could this be you Ray?

Post by **beer monkey** » May 19, 2007, 5:32 am

a ha..... the puzzle is solved.

Post by **papaguido** » May 19, 2007, 9:37 am

kevh wrote:That is amazing ray,

As soon as you get your passport could you post comfirmation of this on the forum please?

The only reason i ask is that Thai immigration have confirmed numerous times that if a person holds a passport of a different nationality then a thai passport will not be issued to that person.

Even if they are a Thai citizen.

This was also confirmed by the British embassy when we applied for out half thai half english daughters passport.

The confirmed that if we wanted both thai and english passports then the thai government insist on you having the thai one first. As they do not allow thailand to be anyones 2nd nationality.

Crazy i know

So please let us know when you get the passport.

Kev

That's strange, because both my kids are dual citzenship. Both issued (USA) passports. Both received Thai passports after receiving US passports. One child was born in USA and the other in Thailand. At neither time were we ever asked if our children were issued passports from another country nor did we volunteer the information. All we ever had to do was to prove their Thai nationality. How's the Thai government to know if you hold a passport from another country?

laphanphon · Post by **laphanphon** » May 19, 2007, 10:13 am

on your first laos run, 2 lg bottles of bailey's please

Post by **BKKSTAN** » May 19, 2007, 10:17 am

One of the problems,I have had in Thailand is asking a gov't official ''to many questions''!If they don't know the facts they will make them up to save face!

If you are not asked,don't volunteer because you might get what you want even if the rules are the opposite!If they don't know and you don't ask,very seldom they will look it up or ask someone else!

Post by **Doc** » May 19, 2007, 11:51 am

BKKSTAN wrote:If you are not asked,don't volunteer because you might get what you want even if the rules are the opposite!If they don't know and you don't ask,very seldom they will look it up or ask someone else!

That is excellent advice for anyone dealing with any bureaucracy in any country. Tell people only what they need to know - not everything that you think that you know.

laphanphon · Post by **laphanphon** » May 19, 2007, 12:57 pm

so.....Khun Ray, how shall we address you now? ............Khun________

i think that is way too cool. i could never do it, don't have the bureaucratic patience, plus i fly under the radar for income, enough to stay here, but not enough to be required to file taxes. i'd be a little shy on income and tax statements, wouldn't be available, let alone having a basic understanding of thai. ok, i've only been here 6 yrs

it would be a shame if you applied for a US visa and got turned down.

Post by **mackayae** » May 19, 2007, 1:30 pm

[quote="laphanphon"]so.....Khun Ray, how shall we address you now? ............Khun________

Khun dbrenn.

Post by **Bump** » May 19, 2007, 1:52 pm

Man my writing style sucks not me guys, thank goodness Beer Monkey knows me better. It's a interesting posting on another forum by the guy who went through the process. Fact is is can be done. The other fact is better have someone really connected to vouch for you.

But, the costs are really l less then the Thai Residency permit. I could probably given enough time and being careful find a way, except I'm retired , don't work here hence pay no taxes.

If you think you can jump through the hoops yuo can find the posting on Thai Visa I beleive in the visa section, contact the guy and have a go at it.

If I met all the criteria once they heard my singing voice I would probably be deported

Post by **jetdoc** » May 19, 2007, 3:10 pm

Ray23 wrote "except I'm retired , don't work here hence pay no taxes."

I've read the Thai tax code and I'm not sure if being retired here exempts one from taxes. I realize that Thailand and the US have a tax treaty, but after reading it I'm not sure about this tax thing. Seems like the country that has the higher tax rate would be entitled to the difference if one is paying taxes in the lower taxing country.

Post by **kevh** » May 19, 2007, 4:38 pm

Papaguido,

The thai passport application form does clearly ask if you are currently, or ever have, been a national of a different country.

If you lie on the form, which clearly you did, then there is a small chance of being caught and having your childrens passports cancelled.

Surely it is better to do it the correct way, by getting the thai one first.

Kev

Post by **Bump** » May 19, 2007, 5:13 pm

Disabilty retirement are exempt in the states and a far as I know or can see that carries over to here as well. Since I don't sing well I don't think I'm going to try to to pay them. Don't know anyone paying taxes on thier retiremetns earned in the states to Thailand, they pay what they owe in the states and then it is finished.

I think the idea behind the tax treated was to avoid double taxation. At least that was the impression that I had when I read it.

In getting abck to the subject it really appears they want to grant citizenship to those that can offer Thailand a way to grow beyond the income they bring here. For example you are that computer wizz that can show Thai's how to be computer wizz's and earn money for Thailand, you might be moe desireable then the guy like me who knows how to turn it on. The obvious answer is they don't give this to just anybody, but it can be done.

Think about for this just a second an individual has to approve this. not a low level government employee.

I posted it not because I thought it was easily obtained, but simply because I thought it was interesting.

I love Thailand the only thing that is missing for me is a true retirement visa. I wouldnl't even mind if it could be rovoked with proper cause and an in country appeal process in place, based on codified laws.

Post by **Doc** » May 19, 2007, 5:34 pm

kevh wrote:The thai passport application form does clearly ask if you are currently, or ever have, been a national of a different country.

If you lie on the form, which clearly you did, then there is a small chance of being caught and having your childrens passports cancelled.

Surely it is better to do it the correct way, by getting the thai one first.

Interesting subject for sure.

In Thailand, I believe, even a child born out of the country to a Thai man automatically becomes a Thai citizen. However, the same rule does not apply to women.

In the US - that same standard was in place for decades. If memory serves me, that was changed almost a decade ago because it was unconstitutional and discriminatory against women and ultimately, children. (Created different classes of children.)

The confusion might lie in interpretation of the applicable laws. With a US passport it is difficult to obtain a passport for another country absent birth rights (parental lineage). The might be the same for Thai law.

Would be interesting to know definitive answers on this issue.