A Scathing Indictment of Thailand's Willful Blindness

[jackspratt]

The New York Times offers an opinion, and some facts, on the 3 stages of Thailand's Covid outbreaks.

The Hiso, Pu Yai, and other officials, don't come out looking pretty. But realistically, it's nothing that none of us don't know already.

The first outbreak, in the spring of 2020, was traced by virologists to a Bangkok boxing stadium operated by the country’s powerful military, which makes money on sports gambling. The second cluster, late last year, was tracked by health officials to a sweatshop seafood business, which depends on immigration officers turning a blind eye to workers trafficked from neighboring countries. And the third, which has killed about 1,000 people, originated in the nightclubs whose coziness with law enforcement is an open secret.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/05/worl ... clubs.html

[GT93]

It's great to see this kind of reporting. Things don't look good for Thailand from here.

[Khun Paul]

There is no doubt that Corruption long touted as a major problem even by the PM ( who vowed to clear it out ) play a part in the ongoing problems. Lazy officials and BLIND police officers being the main cause. However living here you san see the scant attention to Covid restrictions amongst many people including the Expat population, some who think like Thais rules are made to be broken or ignored . Freedom of thought or even speech has allowed this situation to get worse . Governmental orders changing in some cases almost daily and POOR communications skills from top to bottom are also part of the reason .

[Drunk Monkey]

There is no doubt that Corruption long touted as a major problem even by the PM ( who vowed to clear it out ) play a part in the ongoing problems. Lazy officials and BLIND police officers being the main cause. However living here you san see the scant attention to Covid restrictions amongst many people including the Expat population, some who think like Thais rules are made to be broken or ignored . Freedom of thought or even speech has allowed this situation to get worse . Governmental orders changing in some cases almost daily and POOR communications skills from top to bottom are also part of the reason .

Your slipping KP ..you missed out one of your basic daily vitriolic posting terms " lack of common sense "

As Jack commented ...most who reside here pretty much know the origins of the 3 covid waves ..you dont have to be a rocket scientist to have worked it out or require an opinion by the NYT to confirm it .. that was the past , its history and cannot be changed , its the now and future that needs concentrating on to find the best route out of this situation.

DM

[AlexO]

There is no doubt that Corruption long touted as a major problem even by the PM ( who vowed to clear it out ) play a part in the ongoing problems. Lazy officials and BLIND police officers being the main cause. However living here you san see the scant attention to Covid restrictions amongst many people including the Expat population, some who think like Thais rules are made to be broken or ignored . Freedom of thought or even speech has allowed this situation to get worse . Governmental orders changing in some cases almost daily and POOR communications skills from top to bottom are also part of the reason .

Your slipping KP ..you missed out one of your basic daily vitriolic posting terms " lack of common sense "

As Jack commented ...most who reside here pretty much know the origins of the 3 covid waves ..you dont have to be a rocket scientist to have worked it out or require an opinion by the NYT to confirm it .. that was the past , its history and cannot be changed , its the now and future that needs concentrating on to find the best route out of this situation.

DM

Good response DM
The OPINION and inaccurate facts copied and pasted by the Pratt from the NYT that the first wave started in a Thai Boxing Stadium is clearly wrong, it started with Chinese tourists coming in to Thailand before the Chinese Government banned all group travel.
We then have GT93 applauding the 'reporting', its not, it is opinions from a newspaper who do not have all the facts.
Then KP's post saying "freedom of thought or even speech" has allowed the virus problem to worsen in Thailand, where Thailand has some of the lowest infection figures in the world and the last time I looked Thailand is not really famous for those freedoms.
Any six expats sitting in a bar could have offered more accurate insights but then again look who the first three posts are from.

[tamada]

It's great to see this kind of reporting. Things don't look good for Thailand from here.

Shhhh! That sort of talk will only encourage vlad and marco to chime in about how doomd we are to be playing the Thai waiting game and how absolutely wunnerful things are in England right now.

[Giggle]

What this world need is less freedom of thought!

[jackspratt]

The quote from the NYT in the OP does not use the word "wave".

It does talk about the first "outbreak" in Thailand. For the purposes of clarity, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) defines outbreak as follows:

Occasionally, the amount of disease in a community rises above the expected level. Epidemic refers to an increase, often sudden, in the number of cases of a disease above what is normally expected in that population in that area. Outbreak carries the same definition of epidemic, but is often used for a more limited geographic area.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/ ... ion11.html

[dunroaming]

The quote from the NYT in the OP does not use the word "wave".

It does talk about the first "outbreak" in Thailand. For the purposes of clarity, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) defines outbreak as follows:

Occasionally, the amount of disease in a community rises above the expected level. Epidemic refers to an increase, often sudden, in the number of cases of a disease above what is normally expected in that population in that area. Outbreak carries the same definition of epidemic, but is often used for a more limited geographic area.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/ ... ion11.html

and this is a wave just for complete clarity

[noosard]

It was not willful blindness but straight out pigheadedness by hiso and the so called leaders

[Khun Paul]

Oh the I knolw better than anyone else brigade is in full swing here . people offer opinions some utilise othjer news outlets to possibly clarify and YET, we have numpties WHO ACTUALLY KNOW the How and WHY and YET funnily enopugh they are not employed by the Thai Government and not even medical Experts in any field.
people offer opinions to which everyone is entitled unless you are on the list for rubbishing because it is the thing to do to make yourselves look intelligent .
I have no clue on the How and Why but after nearly 18 months of reading the newsx, listening to prats, speaking to others . Watching others decry the restrictions as a joke, I wrote my opinion , sorry if it does NOT fit into your your own ideas .
When one of you has the definitive answeer backed up by not only scientific proof, and medical evidence then please feel free to rubbish others , until then offer yopur opinions and say nothing about others.
Bunch of twats some of you !

[AlexO]

The quote from the NYT in the OP does not use the word "wave".

It does talk about the first "outbreak" in Thailand. For the purposes of clarity, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) defines outbreak as follows:

Occasionally, the amount of disease in a community rises above the expected level. Epidemic refers to an increase, often sudden, in the number of cases of a disease above what is normally expected in that population in that area. Outbreak carries the same definition of epidemic, but is often used for a more limited geographic area.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/ ... ion11.html

Pratty Boy
Tomatoe/Tomatoe, outbreak/wave. The virus was well established in Thailand in early Feb 2020. The army as usual believed they were above the rules of normal governance. https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... us-warning.
No matter how much you try to hide behind a single word the article was wrong, the boxing tournament exacerbated the outbreak but did not cause it.

[AlexO]

KP
Something touch a wee nerve there.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion on any subject and it does not always make them Pratts or Tw-ts . However your "Freedom of thought or even speech has allowed this situation to get worse" must go down as one of the classics.
The only way to stop people thinking is extermination which kind of defeats the point.

[glalt]

Bunch of twats? That certainly includes you, right up there with the worst of them, maybe equal to number one.

[Khun Paul]

Ah the freedom of speech and thought phrase, I am of course referring to the outpourings of the ANTI VAX brigade and the Anti Mask brigade and the attempts by even elected people to downplay the situation for the last 16 months resulting in far more deaths that should have happened.

The ability to provide Mis information, Downright lies, peddle useless and often dangerous option for cures ,even by shall we say the Moron that occupied a seat in a White House . Those statements and the freedom by which they were peddled made a bad situation worse, or would the people on here think for one moment those comments made by many assisted in getting the situation better.

While we embrace FREE SPEECH it is that which has caused in part the horrendous death rate coupled with the MIS-information people are free to espouse without any possibility of being prosecuted for telling downright lies in some instances . What is even worse is that people actually believe that clap-trap and so died,

So I endorse FREE SPEECH and THOUGHT but within reason taking into account the MORAL duty of us all , Elected and Non-elected to think about what we say and the effect it may have on others.

[jackspratt]

Pratty Boy
Tomatoe/Tomatoe, outbreak/wave. The virus was well established in Thailand in early Feb 2020. The army as usual believed they were above the rules of normal governance. https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... us-warning.
No matter how much you try to hide behind a single word the article was wrong, the boxing tournament exacerbated the outbreak but did not cause it.

I've passed your considered views on the the NYT, and the virologist they mention - no doubt corrections will come in due course.

To help them with their re-evaluation, I have included this quote from the Bangkok Post article you linked:

Health authorities were blaming the rapid spread of Covid-19 partly on the boxing events and the failure of those present to go into self-isolation, Gen Pornpipat said.

And the CDC so they can update their definition, and consider whether "rapid spread" is the same as "outbreak".

[AlexO]

Ah the freedom of speech and thought phrase, I am of course referring to the outpourings of the ANTI VAX brigade and the Anti Mask brigade and the attempts by even elected people to downplay the situation for the last 16 months resulting in far more deaths that should have happened.

The ability to provide Mis information, Downright lies, peddle useless and often dangerous option for cures ,even by shall we say the Moron that occupied a seat in a White House . Those statements and the freedom by which they were peddled made a bad situation worse, or would the people on here think for one moment those comments made by many assisted in getting the situation better.

While we embrace FREE SPEECH it is that which has caused in part the horrendous death rate coupled with the MIS-information people are free to espouse without any possibility of being prosecuted for telling downright lies in some instances . What is even worse is that people actually believe that clap-trap and so died,

So I endorse FREE SPEECH and THOUGHT but within reason taking into account the MORAL duty of us all , Elected and Non-elected to think about what we say and the effect it may have on others.

KP
Perhaps you failed to notice the title of the thread and that you specifically referred to Thailand in your initial post citing Government corruption/failing to deal with it etc. I would remind you that Thailand for all its faults had under 100 Covid related deaths up until the start of April 2021, more than a year after Covid entered the Country. As for mask wearing etc the Thai's have probably been one of the most compliant nations as far as that goes. Your first post was an obvious attempt at Thai bashing which is not deserved where Covid is concerned.

[Khun Paul]

Oh I noticed it , BUT you are forgetting that what is said in the REST of this interconnected world does have effects on people everywhere, so MIS-INFORMATION that so many have peddled to us all can and will eff3ect how the Vaccine and restrictions are viewed, even here. Thailand is NOT isolated from the rest of the world , it may have done a good job at the beginning but over time ,polices and decisions have allowed that to protectiveness to crumble and so now we have a worse situation. in some parts.
If telling the truth is construed as Thai bashing then I will always tell the truth no matter how uncomfortable people may feel . Waking up to reality is difficult at best for some to accept, however that does not mean that others are having a go as it were, they are just telling something some may NOT want to hear or rather ignore because it does not fit into how they think .

[saint]

How did they handle it well in the beginning ? I think they just got lucky . Half the current restrictions have nothing to do with the Chinese virus ! Think about it .

[rick]

The one thing that does seem to work is their contact tracing. I think this is the real reason why outbreaks get controlled. However, this system only works if you can find the first case ..... lack of testing means many outbreaks are only discovered sometimes after hundreds of others are already infected.