Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

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tamada
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by tamada » January 14, 2021, 12:34 pm

AlexO wrote:
January 14, 2021, 9:21 am
vincemunday wrote:
January 13, 2021, 1:14 pm
For the flat earthers and deniers, the keywords here are ...

BUILDING IMMUNITY


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -work.html
Not really convinced Vince (sorry). My parents used to get an annual flu jab in the UK from the age of 65 to their passing away at 86 and 91. Surely in that time they would have built immunity to the flu bug (its another Corona Virus after all) I sincerely hope that this Covid-19 bug will not require an annual jab for the over 65's but only time will tell.
Because influenza is just "another Corona Virus after all", it also mutates. The flu shot your parents (and mine) ritually took each year was slightly different each year. It was a cocktail tweaked to address the strains (mutations) that were expected to prevail for that particular flu season. I recall a news item from a few years ago where there was a global shortage of flu shots early in the season because the 'wrong' cocktail had been released which had to be recalled and/or destroyed. More recently, the US's 2019/20 flu season vaccine was reported to be less efficacious due to missing out on two prevalent flu strains that arose late in the southern hemisphere's flu season.

I think the Covid-19 shot will also become just another part of life, especially for the oldies.



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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by sometimewoodworker » January 14, 2021, 4:06 pm

Barney wrote:
January 14, 2021, 12:09 pm
Of course there will be an annual jab. How will the big pharmacy mobs get there money back.
Flu shot yearly with the most recent strains built in.
My vaccination book is full of repeat shots, it’s a business.
Your vaccination book is really a result of the places you go to. :lol: Apart from tetanus boosters my last vaccination is over 40 years ago, just because I haven’t visited places where they are needed or required, not because I resist getting them.

You can’t compare the flu vaccination to COVID-19.

It is much closer to the original SARS which has a similar mutation period.

Influenza mutation rate is fast and mutations often come from an animal reservoir so the vaccine changes each year.
SARS Immune response is currently at a known 17 years. The Immune response for COVID-19 and the vaccines are unknown as there has not been enough time (years) to judge.

So yes it could be an annual jab, equally it could be a 10 year booster. Or in the absolute best case it could be the second disease that is completely eliminated.
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by noosard » January 14, 2021, 4:51 pm

When I was coming to SE Asia in 1987 Doc in Perth gave me one lot of vaccine
Two weeks later I went for the booster shot and a different Doc said I had been given the wrong one and I needed a double shot of the one that he recommended
1 was cholera and the other yellow fever cant remember which was which
The last vaccine shot I got was here in Thailand for Diphtheria which was free about 5 years ago
AS for covid19 it may be eliminated but 19 will change to 21 or more which will need vaccinating from
just like the flu needs every year

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Doodoo » January 14, 2021, 5:45 pm

Uncertainty over availability of COVID-19 vaccinations for expats in Thailand


https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/120150 ... paign=news

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by noosard » January 14, 2021, 7:20 pm

Doodoo wrote:
January 14, 2021, 5:45 pm
Uncertainty over availability of COVID-19 vaccinations for expats in Thailand


https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/120150 ... paign=news
Thats good
So no chance of demanding vaccination for visa requirements
:D :D

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by tamada » January 14, 2021, 8:34 pm

Makes sense to inoculate all nationalities who are working or otherwise domiciled in Thailand. Anyone with a current long stay visa or valid extension thereof should qualify. That would virtually eliminate any temptation to blame the "dirty foreigners" again.

Failing that, I reckon we can all go home and get a much better quality one. I appreciate that those who can't due to BBS (burned bridge syndrome) might find this difficult.

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Doodoo » January 14, 2021, 9:17 pm

NOOSAED
Thats good
So no chance of demanding vaccination for visa requirements"
I wouldnt hold my breath They can demand whatever they want it would then be up to you to meet their demnds

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Its Me Trev » January 14, 2021, 9:26 pm

Air Asia cancelled my flight. So decision was made for me....see you all in February instead.

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by tamada » January 15, 2021, 6:50 am

If anyone is harboring thoughts of hunkering down and avoiding being vaccinated until it just goes away, read the following.

Moderna CEO says the world will have to live with Covid 'forever'

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/13/mod ... rever.html

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by fatbob » January 15, 2021, 7:10 am

tamada wrote:
January 15, 2021, 6:50 am
If anyone is harboring thoughts of hunkering down and avoiding being vaccinated until it just goes away, read the following.

Moderna CEO says the world will have to live with Covid 'forever'

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/13/mod ... rever.html
Your quoting the CEO of one of the biggest pharma company's FFS. So when did they set the guidelines, don't you realize he is after profits.... unbelievable.

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Khun Paul » January 15, 2021, 8:08 am

I was wrong in my earlier assumption, however I found these questions and answers, that may clear the air :
1. Why get vaccinated for coronavirus SARS – CoV -2?
Vaccines are made to treat diseases that cannot be controlled by other public health measures alone. Their goal is to reduce and eliminate diseases with high communicability, with serious effects on human health, with high mortality, with a high burden on health systems, but also with adverse economic effects on society.

Coronavirus SARS – CoV-2 is a new virus that within a year of its appearance has dramatically affected the lives of all people worldwide. It has a high transmissibility so that it is impossible to control only with the application of other, better known to all of us, public health measures, in many cases seriously endangers the health of the sick, can lead to loss of many human lives while still healthy, affects significantly testing everyone’s daily lives, testing health systems and creating irreparable economic impacts around the world.

2. How effective is the SARS coronavirus vaccine – CoV -2?
Many SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus vaccines are currently in clinical trials. How effective a vaccine is always depends on the particular vaccine, the proper administration of the vaccine, and factors that affect each individual’s immune response. The first vaccines to be approved appear to be quite effective, up to 95%. The competent control mechanisms approving the marketing of vaccines prioritize the efficacy and safety of vaccines.

3. Can I get a vaccine and still get COVID- 19?
No vaccine is 100% effective. So in some cases one can get the new coronavirus even though the vaccine was given. Therefore, citizens should continue to take the recommended precautions to avoid infection, ie vaccinated people should continue to use a mask, social distance, regular and meticulous hand hygiene and cleanliness of the area where they live or work. Vaccines against COVID- 19 seem to reduce the risk of getting the disease. Each vaccine has been tested in more than 20,000 people in various countries and has an acceptable safety profile. It takes a few weeks for someone to develop immunity and be protected after the vaccine is given. Some people may get COVID- 19 despite being vaccinated, but the disease may be less severe.

4. If the vaccine does not protect me 100% from the disease from the new coronavirus, why should I do it?
New vaccines, as shown by clinical trials, reduce the risk of developing symptoms and possibly the risk of serious viral illness. This is very important, because at the same time the risk of illness, the risk of loss of human life and possibly the risk of long-term complications caused by the virus in some patients, such as complications of the cardiovascular and respiratory systems, are reduced.

A similar experience of such effectiveness exists with other vaccines that have been used for years in medicine. For example, the H 1 N 1 flu vaccine is not as effective every year in controlling the disease. Various factors, such as the ability of the virus to mutate, the strain of the virus that will prevail each year, the geographical area, can affect the effectiveness of the vaccine in controlling the disease. But even less effective vaccines in the past seem to reduce the overall risk of serious illness in the general population.

5. Can I get the vaccine and not get sick but be an asymptomatic carrier of the virus?
We do not yet know if those who are vaccinated with the new vaccines may become infected with the virus and be asymptomatic, so they can still transmit the virus under these conditions. That is why it is important even for those who are vaccinated to apply the rest of the public health measures against the new virus, ie the use of a mask, the observance of social distance, the regular and meticulous hand hygiene and the cleanliness of the place where they live or work. At present, clinical trials show that the new vaccines provide more protection against COVID- 19 disease than significantly reduce the risk of transmitting the virus. It remains to be seen whether the new vaccines that are expected to complete the necessary clinical trials will be effective in reducing the transmission of the virus.

6. Can I get SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus because of the vaccine?
None of the vaccines to be studied and approved for coronavirus SARS – CoV -2 contain the whole virus. Most vaccines used in medicine now contain only parts of the virus that are capable of producing protective antibodies against the virus to the person to be administered. Thus the vaccinated person is in no way at risk of getting sick from the coronavirus due to the vaccine.

However, there is a possibility that he has already contracted COVID- 19 and may not have realized it if the symptoms become apparent only after vaccination. Although a mild fever may occur within one or two days of vaccination, any other symptoms of COVID- 19 (such as persistent cough, high fever, or fever lasting longer, numbness, tastelessness) should remain home and plan to do a lab test.

7. I have been exposed to the SARS coronavirus – CoV -2 or I have COVID -19. Do I need to get the vaccine?
It is not yet sufficiently known how long natural immunity lasts in people who have been exposed to the coronavirus and have been asymptomatic or ill. However, it is not yet clear whether people exposed to the virus should be vaccinated against the SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus.

8. I have heard that the vaccine was prepared with new techniques in relation to the other vaccines. How dangerous is this?
Although there have been cases of other coronaviruses in the past (in 2003 – Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) and in 2012 – Respiratory Syndrome MERS – CoV), no vaccines were developed for these viruses. This made it more difficult to prepare a coronavirus vaccine, as there was no previous experience. At the same time, the preparation and approval of a new vaccine involves many stages and control mechanisms in order for the vaccine to be effective and safe to use. The techniques for making different vaccines may differ and as knowledge progresses it evolves according to the latest scientific data.

Throughout the history of vaccine production, new techniques have always been applied with the goal of their effectiveness and safety. In each new technique that is applied, the stages of quality control and approval remain as the preparation of a new vaccine has as its primary concern the protection of public health.

9. Due to the SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus pandemic, there was an urgent need for this vaccine to be prepared much faster than other vaccines. Does that mean it may not be as safe as other vaccines?
Indeed, the new pandemic from the new coronavirus SARS – CoV -2 and its significant effects on human lives have put great pressure on the development of a vaccine against the new virus as soon as possible. For this reason, the processes of its production and approval were accelerated as much as possible and companies involved in its production from various countries were financed. However, the stages of evaluation of the effectiveness and safety of the vaccine and the competent control mechanisms are never bypassed as the production of the vaccines always complies with these two inescapable parameters: their effectiveness and safety.

10. Are SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus vaccines safe? Do they have any side effects?
Current data from clinical trials show that new SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus vaccines that are in the final stage of approval or have been approved have an acceptable safety profile.

Most side effects of vaccines occur in the first weeks to months after administration and control mechanisms require that this period be passed in clinical trials before the vaccine undergoes further testing and approval.

Like all known vaccines, the new ones against SARS – CoV -2 can have side effects. Most of them are mild and short-lived, and do not appear in all. Such side effects are a feeling of pain and tenderness in the hand where the vaccine was given that tends to get worse about 1-2 days after the vaccine, a feeling of tiredness, headache, general pain or mild flu-like symptoms. Although a fever is not uncommon for two to three days, the high temperature is unusual and may indicate disease COVID -19 or other infection. An unusual side effect is lymphadenopathy.

Resting and taking a regular dose of paracetamol help one feel better. Symptoms of side effects usually last less than a week. Mild symptoms after the first dose are not a contraindication to a second dose vaccination, which is necessary for better protection against the virus. If the symptoms worsen or there is concern, it is advisable to inform the treating physician in order to have a proper evaluation.

11. In how many doses is the vaccine given and when will I have developed an adequate antibody response to the virus, ie will I be shielded against the virus?
Most vaccines for the new SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus that are approved by the relevant control mechanisms are administered in two doses with an interval of 21-28 days in order to be effective. There is a vaccine in a phase 3 clinical trial administered in a single dose. The vaccines that will eventually be approved for marketing in Greece will determine in how many doses they will be administered and with what interval.

It takes about two weeks for an antibody to develop antibodies after a vaccine has been given. If the vaccine requires two doses for an adequate antibody response, then the total time it takes for the vaccinated person to be shielded against the virus is, taking into account all of the above, about 5-6 weeks.

12. For how long does the vaccine protect me against the SARS coronavirus – CoV -2?
It is not yet clear how long the immunity offered by the vaccine against the new coronavirus lasts. It is a new virus and a new vaccine and with the data from the clinical trials so far we do not know the duration of protection it offers us. With the release of the new SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus vaccine and the vaccination of more people we will soon have more data to answer this question.

Both the duration of natural immunity, ie immunity after infection of the individual with the virus, and the duration of immunity resulting from vaccination with the new vaccine against the new coronavirus are under investigation and new data are expected over time.

13. Can I get the COVID- 19 vaccine along with another vaccine recommended for adults?
Tests should be performed to determine if the SARS -2- CoV coronavirus vaccine is safe to be given with other vaccines and if the two vaccines do not interfere with each other’s immune response. It is possible that some of the subsequent clinical trials of coronavirus vaccines will include co-administration with other vaccines, and in particular with the influenza vaccine.

14. Should COVID- 19 vaccination be given on an annual basis?
It is not known at the moment. By licensing a vaccine, we only have information on the duration of immunity for the duration of the clinical trials. For example, if the first subjects in the study were vaccinated in July 2020 and the vaccine received marketing authorization in December 2020, we will only have information on the immune response up to 5 months after vaccination. The manufacturer will probably continue to monitor the vaccinated for several months or more, so that over time, we will have a better picture of the duration of immunity. With this information, we can better understand if vaccines against COVID- 19 require annual administration such as the flu.

15. Can a person return to normal activity after vaccination?
Yes, one should be able to continue normal activities as long as one feels well and continue to take precautions against coronavirus. If his hand is particularly sore, he may have difficulty lifting it. If one feels unwell or very tired one should rest and avoid the use of machinery or driving. The pregnancy process should be avoided for two months after vaccination.

16. Will everyone be able to get the vaccine?
Clinical trials for vaccines target specific population groups and are not performed from the beginning for all. The SARS – CoV -2 coronavirus vaccines, which will be approved for marketing and disposal by the competent control mechanisms, will determine in which categories of individuals the clinical trials have been performed and accordingly the decision has been made by the competent committee of vaccination experts (National Commission Vaccines) who will be preceded by vaccination in Greece.

For example, there are currently no clinical trials in pregnant women and children, so these populations are excluded from vaccination at this stage.

The purpose of the COVID- 19 vaccine is to give priority to those at high risk of developing the disease and to have serious complications if they do. These include health and social services staff, the elderly and nursing home staff, and patients and staff of care facilities for the chronically ill and rehabilitation centres.

Finally, as clinical trials progress and our knowledge increases about safe administration and in other categories of people, vaccination will be expanded to protect the health of all citizens.

17. Is it possible for any of the vaccines against COVID- 19 to be accepted for vaccination in children without prior clinical trials in children or do these vaccines need to undergo separate clinical trials before being administered to persons under 18 years of age?
COVID- 19 vaccines should be thoroughly tested in children under 18 years of age before they are given to this group, as we cannot assume that they will work in the same way in children. This is especially important as it has been observed that children are not affected in the same way by coronavirus infection.

Clinical trials in children are likely to be performed in fewer people than in the 30,000 trials in progress in adults, but many children will need to undergo clinical trials to ensure they develop immunity and have no side effects.

In addition, both groups (adults and children) should be monitored continuously after vaccinations are approved to record rare side effects that go undetected until several hundred thousand or several million doses of the vaccine have been given.

18. Since clinical trials of vaccines do not include people with autoimmune diseases, how do we know if they can be vaccinated?
The requirements for who can participate in a vaccine clinical trial vary depending on the company that performs them, the disease against which they are immunized, and the different types of autoimmune diseases. Often the first clinical trials are the most restrictive, so that the data are not affected by other conditions. In the future, scientists and healthcare providers will collect data for different subgroups.

In some cases, specific clinical trials will be performed, but often information about healthy adults can tell what to expect about different conditions. Because often groups of people with a specific condition can be small, no formal clinical trial can be performed, but experience with similar vaccines and understanding of the effects of the disease on the immune system can help make risk / benefit decisions. Over time, as more people with the disease are vaccinated, more data accumulates. Post-licensing monitoring systems provide opportunities for real-time monitoring of these subgroups.

In any case, it is necessary to personally communicate with the treating physician and discuss with him about the benefits of the vaccine in relation to the patient’s health condition.

Some aspects have changed especially regarding to the timing of the Second dose and mo0re details are surfacing regarding the immunity length.
But it should be noted that the current precautions regarding Face masks, Hand washing etc are still followed .

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by noosard » January 15, 2021, 9:48 am

Doodoo wrote:
January 14, 2021, 9:17 pm
NOOSAED
Thats good
So no chance of demanding vaccination for visa requirements"
I wouldnt hold my breath They can demand whatever they want it would then be up to you to meet their demnds
No need to shout an incorrect name
Yes IMO can ask for whatever but vaccines wont required this year
Take that to the bank

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by vincemunday » January 15, 2021, 11:45 am

Official #COVID19 update in #Thailand on Friday:
👉 From 15 December to 15 January 👈
🔸7,213 people infected (+34 imported cases & +154 local cases)
🔸4,348 discharged from hospital (+628)
🔸2,856 people in care
🔸9 dead (+0)

Grand Total: 11,450 people infected and 69 deaths

Many thanks to Richard Barrow in Thailand
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Re: Corona Virus / COVID-19 Important Information

Post by noosard » January 15, 2021, 5:00 pm

for immunity passports to be viable we still need to confirm two vital pieces of data:
How long does immunity last?
And, can a vaccinated traveller still asymptomatically spread the virus to others?

Answers to both questions at present are dont know , wait and see

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Re: Corona Virus / COVID-19 Important Information

Post by sometimewoodworker » January 15, 2021, 5:17 pm

noosard wrote:
January 15, 2021, 5:00 pm
for immunity passports to be viable we still need to confirm two vital pieces of data:
How long does immunity last?
And, can a vaccinated traveller still asymptomatically spread the virus to others?

Answers to both questions at present are dont know , wait and see
Your first answer is correct.

The second is not, a vaccination provides protection against symptomatic/hospitalisation infection it doesn’t completely prevent infection & asymptomatically spread of the virus.

If someone can become seriously ill from that doesn’t have enough data published for a definitive answer.
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Udon Map » January 15, 2021, 7:19 pm

Khun Paul wrote:
January 15, 2021, 8:08 am
I was wrong in my earlier assumption, however I found these questions and answers, that may clear the air :
Where's this info from?

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Re: Corona Virus / COVID-19 Important Information

Post by noosard » January 15, 2021, 7:43 pm

So a vaccinated person can carry the virus to areas unvaccinated
That means there is no way the quarantine will stop in the near future
Re look at whole problem next year (2022)

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by sometimewoodworker » January 15, 2021, 9:22 pm

noosard wrote:
January 14, 2021, 4:51 pm
AS for covid19 it may be eliminated but 19 will change to 21 or more which will need vaccinating from
just like the flu needs every year
Extraordinarily unlikely since it is similar to the first SARS virus in mutation speed.

Influenza is nothing like either SARS or COVID-19, influenza has large animal reservoirs to aide mutation and is 4 times faster than COVID-19. HIV is far faster than either of the other 2 so a vaccine is extremely difficult to produce.

There will be other viruses that are significantly bad, when they will come is like predicting earthquakes.
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Re: Corona Virus / COVID-19 Important Information

Post by sometimewoodworker » January 15, 2021, 9:47 pm

noosard wrote:
January 15, 2021, 7:43 pm
So a vaccinated person can carry the virus to areas unvaccinated
Yes
noosard wrote:
January 15, 2021, 7:43 pm

That means there is no way the quarantine will stop in the near future
Unclear. It will probably depend on further data and vaccination take up.
noosard wrote:
January 15, 2021, 7:43 pm

Re look at whole problem next year (2022)
Probably

That a vaccinated person can become infected is sure. That someone who has has covid19 can be reinfected is sure.

The vaccinated infection rate and reinfection rates are very low. It is not at all clear that those people will shed sufficient virus to cause symptomatic infections. It is also not clear that they will definitely cause infection though they probably will.
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Drunk Monkey » January 16, 2021, 12:38 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
January 15, 2021, 9:22 pm
noosard wrote:
January 14, 2021, 4:51 pm
AS for covid19 it may be eliminated but 19 will change to 21 or more which will need vaccinating from
just like the flu needs every year
Extraordinarily unlikely since it is similar to the first SARS virus in mutation speed.

Influenza is nothing like either SARS or COVID-19, influenza has large animal reservoirs to aide mutation and is 4 times faster than COVID-19. HIV is far faster than either of the other 2 so a vaccine is extremely difficult to produce.

There will be other viruses that are significantly bad, when they will come is like predicting earthquakes.
Well on this occasion STWWW .. I have to agree with your conclusions ..

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