Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

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Khun Paul
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Khun Paul » April 18, 2020, 10:10 am

Interesting information, which makes for sober thought.

There is currently no evidence to support the belief that people who have recovered from coronavirus then have immunity, the World Health Organisation has said.
Senior WHO epidemiologists warned despite the hopes governments across the world have piled on antibody tests, there is no proof those who have been infected cannot be infected again.
The British Government has bought 3.5 million serology tests, which measure levels of antibodies in blood plasma, even though they are not definitive of growing levels of herd immunity.
_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________

© Denis Balibouse/Reuters Dr Maria van Kerkhove, a WHO epidemiologist, doubted the value of antibody tests -
Many tests being developed are pin-prick blood tests similar to widely used instant HIV tests and measure for raised levels of the antibodies the body uses to fight the virus.
Speaking at a press conference in Geneva, Dr Maria van Kerkhove said: "There are a lot of countries that are suggesting using rapid diagnostic serological tests to be able to capture what they think will be a measure of immunity.

"Right now, we have no evidence that the use of a serological test can show that an individual has immunity or is protected from reinfection."
She added: "These antibody tests will be able to measure that level of seroprevalence - that level of antibodies but that does not mean that somebody with antibodies means that they are immune."
Dr van Kerkhove said it was "a good thing" that so many tests are being developed.

But she cautioned: "We need to ensure that they are validated so that we know what they say they attempt to measure they are actually measuring."
Her colleague Dr Michael Ryan said the antibody tests also raised ethical questions.
"There are serious ethical issues around the use of such an approach and we need to address it very carefully, we also need to look at the length of protection that antibodies might give," he said.



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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by sometimewoodworker » April 18, 2020, 10:20 am

tamada wrote:
April 18, 2020, 9:31 am
sometimewoodworker wrote:
April 18, 2020, 6:34 am
tamada wrote:
April 17, 2020, 11:41 pm
sometimewoodworker wrote:
April 17, 2020, 10:26 pm
...

FWIW the USA was offered tests by Germany and at least 1 other country but refused them.

...

Don’t copy the Orange, facts first
The United States "refused" COVID-19 diagnostic tests offered by the World Health Organization.

What's True
The U.S. did not use COVID-19 diagnostic tests produced by the World Health Organization (WHO) in favor of producing its own.

What's False
The U.S. did not turn down an offer to use those tests (as no such offer was extended), nor was it unusual for the United States to design and produce its own diagnostic tests in lieu of those made elsewhere.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/us-coronavirus-test/
The last time I looked the WHO was neither Germany nor a country :-" :-"

Your own link confirms that there was/is a test created in Germany, in Berlin. That was being distributed around the world that the USA was certainly offered and decided not to use but to go ahead with the CDC test that the first kits had to be withdrawn because the did not work.

Just because the US has always done something does not make it the best thing to do, for example Detroit.
No labs at the airport required. The only ten-minute, lab-free tests are the IgM/IgG antibody tests
There could well be a lab in the medical Center that is certainly in that airport.
The tests you are talking about determine if you have had COVID-19, not if you are currently developing it.

As I said not enough information to draw conclusions or make accusations.
The conclusions and accusations could be correct but we don’t know yet.
The German test kit was one and the same as the test kit that matched the WHO"s protocol on test kits and thus the same test kit that was neither offered or declined.

You can introduce the irrelevancy of American politics into this narrative as much as you like. I still call the Emirates (the airline) plan for passenger testing for what it is, pure commercial gain that gets precariously close to sewing false hope. There's not an altruistic bone in any of their bodies.
Please show the evidence for your claim.
The snopes article specifically refers to the supposedly WHO offering.

Note the snopes information is
Although Trump’s political opponents and some media sources accused his administration of “refusing” to use the WHO test, Fauci’s comment and various credible news reports on the topic indicate that the CDC has a standard procedure for handling diagnostic tests during an outbreak, and that protocol doesn’t include using tests provided by WHO (or any other external organization). We therefore rate this claim “Mixture.”
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by tamada » April 18, 2020, 11:28 am

^ The WHO doesn't make test kits. The WHO only issued a protocol, a definition of what would be acceptable in any test kit. A German company was the first one having a kit that both matched the protocol AND had availability. The WHO's test kits that were never offered to the US and thus never refused by the US were the same German kits.

Now, back to my main point, airlines don't to pandemic control. But they are broke, even the state-funded mid-east monoliths.

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by tamada » April 18, 2020, 11:31 am

Khun Paul wrote:
April 18, 2020, 10:10 am
Interesting information, which makes for sober thought.

There is currently no evidence to support the belief that people who have recovered from coronavirus then have immunity, the World Health Organisation has said.
Senior WHO epidemiologists warned despite the hopes governments across the world have piled on antibody tests, there is no proof those who have been infected cannot be infected again.
The British Government has bought 3.5 million serology tests, which measure levels of antibodies in blood plasma, even though they are not definitive of growing levels of herd immunity.
_____________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________

© Denis Balibouse/Reuters Dr Maria van Kerkhove, a WHO epidemiologist, doubted the value of antibody tests -
Many tests being developed are pin-prick blood tests similar to widely used instant HIV tests and measure for raised levels of the antibodies the body uses to fight the virus.
Speaking at a press conference in Geneva, Dr Maria van Kerkhove said: "There are a lot of countries that are suggesting using rapid diagnostic serological tests to be able to capture what they think will be a measure of immunity.

"Right now, we have no evidence that the use of a serological test can show that an individual has immunity or is protected from reinfection."
She added: "These antibody tests will be able to measure that level of seroprevalence - that level of antibodies but that does not mean that somebody with antibodies means that they are immune."
Dr van Kerkhove said it was "a good thing" that so many tests are being developed.

But she cautioned: "We need to ensure that they are validated so that we know what they say they attempt to measure they are actually measuring."
Her colleague Dr Michael Ryan said the antibody tests also raised ethical questions.
"There are serious ethical issues around the use of such an approach and we need to address it very carefully, we also need to look at the length of protection that antibodies might give," he said.
All good points well made. Good find KP.

Airlines shouldn't be using these kits to determine who's fit to fly.

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by sometimewoodworker » April 18, 2020, 12:08 pm

tamada wrote:
April 18, 2020, 11:28 am
^ The WHO doesn't make test kits. The WHO only issued a protocol, a definition of what would be acceptable in any test kit. A German company was the first one having a kit that both matched the protocol AND had availability. The WHO's test kits that were never offered to the US and thus never refused by the US were the same German kits.
You have shown nothing that says that test kits were not offered, just that the WHO did not offer them.

Snopes said that the WHO did not offer, it does not say that they were not offered.

Snopes refutes a WHO offer Snopes does not refute other offers.

It also points out that the US CDC would not use or permit foreign tests
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on April 18, 2020, 1:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by tamada » April 18, 2020, 12:56 pm

cjd01 wrote:
April 18, 2020, 9:48 am
What has the fact that an airline any airline is conducting tests on passengers before they'll let them fly, got to do with giving anybody false hope?
hope about what?
That they have miraculously dodged a bullet and can let their guard down? A whole lot of people have conflated a -ve test with a bill of clean health. The test, any test, just shows one either hasn't caught it yet OR you've caught it but the symptoms were so benign you missed it OR you are totally asymptomatic. There's no indication that one cannot be re-infected or can't carry on being a super-spreader.

On the other hand, a vaccine....

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by tamada » April 18, 2020, 1:30 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote:
April 18, 2020, 12:08 pm
tamada wrote:
April 18, 2020, 11:28 am
^ The WHO doesn't make test kits. The WHO only issued a protocol, a definition of what would be acceptable in any test kit. A German company was the first one having a kit that both matched the protocol AND had availability. The WHO's test kits that were never offered to the US and thus never refused by the US were the same German kits.
You have shown nothing that says that test kits were not offered, just that the WHO did not offer them.

Snopes said that the WHO did not offer, it does not say that they were not offered.

Snopes refutes a WHO offer Snopes does no refute other offers.

It also points out that the US CDC would not use foreign tests
So far, you have shown nothing that says that "the USA was offered tests by Germany and at least 1 other country but refused them".

On 26 March, it was announced by Qiagen NV that they were shipping their kits to the US in late March. They weren't offering them, they were sending them. They weren't only sending them to the US, it was a global distribution.

"The release of the test kits was preceded by the announcement of QIAGEN receiving funding for the project in part from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response; Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority Division of Research, Innovation, and Ventures."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN21B15V

AFAIK they still haven't been FDA approved.

On 1st April, the FDA gave their contingency approval to Cellex for the 'emergency use' of their almost identical product.

https://www.fda.gov/media/136622/download

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by cjd01 » April 18, 2020, 1:43 pm

Ok Tam
I take your point, however I'm sure that if I could board a flight from Bangkok to Sydney, never mind what test I've had to get on the plane, I'd be going into quarantine, it wouldn't matter what I believed or wanted.
Some of us might die of old age in our lock down prisons before a vaccine is available.

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Whistler » April 18, 2020, 5:11 pm

Covid 19 now the second biggest cause of death in the USA and with a bullet to be No 1.

Anybody who claims it is just the flu or skeptical about how serious this is, your comments would be interesting to maintain that stance given this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... rc404=true
lies are already halfway around the world before the truth has laced up its shoes

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Barney » April 18, 2020, 5:24 pm

cjd01 wrote:Ok Tam
I take your point, however I'm sure that if I could board a flight from Bangkok to Sydney, never mind what test I've had to get on the plane, I'd be going into quarantine, it wouldn't matter what I believed or wanted.
Some of us might die of old age in our lock down prisons before a vaccine is available.
You might be able to test the process of who can travel and how you may be tested next week.
Australia and Thai air are trying to get 1 flight Bkk to Syd next week on the 25th.
26,000 bht 1 way. Only room for 300 odd. Good luck in the lottery if you want to go home.
Assume they may bring Thais back. Also assume still only 200 Thais incoming a day.
Yes there is 14 day isolation in a hotel room on arrival in Sydney.


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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by pal52 » April 19, 2020, 8:59 am

Just published on Udon Thani news Facebook (in Thai).
The final 8th corona virus case in Udon has been released from hospital cured.
Udon is now Corona virus free for now.

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by cjd01 » April 19, 2020, 9:15 am

Barney wrote:
April 18, 2020, 5:24 pm
cjd01 wrote:Ok Tam
I take your point, however I'm sure that if I could board a flight from Bangkok to Sydney, never mind what test I've had to get on the plane, I'd be going into quarantine, it wouldn't matter what I believed or wanted.
Some of us might die of old age in our lock down prisons before a vaccine is available.
You might be able to test the process of who can travel and how you may be tested next week.
Australia and Thai air are trying to get 1 flight Bkk to Syd next week on the 25th.
26,000 bht 1 way. Only room for 300 odd. Good luck in the lottery if you want to go home.
Assume they may bring Thais back. Also assume still only 200 Thais incoming a day.
Yes there is 14 day isolation in a hotel room on arrival in Sydney.


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Thanks for the info, my final destination is Brisbane so would rather do the quarantine there, I see there are some options in May, Udon - Chang Mai - Taipei - Brisbane
Now just have to work out how to get back, Dr letter stating no covid should be ok but $100000 US Dollar covid insurance maybe not so easy.

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by noosard » April 19, 2020, 11:24 am

There is a growing worry that no vaccine will be made that works
This will leave only herd immunity or the virus dies out on its own which at the moment is unlikely

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Barney » April 19, 2020, 11:45 am

cjd01 wrote:
Barney wrote:
April 18, 2020, 5:24 pm
cjd01 wrote:Ok Tam
I take your point, however I'm sure that if I could board a flight from Bangkok to Sydney, never mind what test I've had to get on the plane, I'd be going into quarantine, it wouldn't matter what I believed or wanted.
Some of us might die of old age in our lock down prisons before a vaccine is available.
You might be able to test the process of who can travel and how you may be tested next week.
Australia and Thai air are trying to get 1 flight Bkk to Syd next week on the 25th.
26,000 bht 1 way. Only room for 300 odd. Good luck in the lottery if you want to go home.
Assume they may bring Thais back. Also assume still only 200 Thais incoming a day.
Yes there is 14 day isolation in a hotel room on arrival in Sydney.


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Thanks for the info, my final destination is Brisbane so would rather do the quarantine there, I see there are some options in May, Udon - Chang Mai - Taipei - Brisbane
Now just have to work out how to get back, Dr letter stating no covid should be ok but $100000 US Dollar covid insurance maybe not so easy.
Hopefully by May it will bring some lifting of restrictions on flights.
The small info from the Aussie embassy says that there are 2,000 or more Aussies registered with the BKK embassy. Last count was approx 600 wanted to leave thailand. The 300 seat allocation will be randomly chosen with families with kids first. The couples, then singles.
People, out of the 2000 have been told to indicate by lunch on Monday if they want to return. If your not registered with the embassy by email you are not in the hunt.
You can see the lottery of only 300 seats. Some disappointed angry faces will be on show.
Have you checked Qatar airlines?
They were flying daily Bkk/Doha/Australia.
Not sure if that status now. Was about 2,500 or 3000 AUD.
The Australian embassy was also trying hard to allow people to transit through HK. Been difficult to have HK change there non transit rules.
So be patient I think and things may fall into place.
Just had 2 mates complete their 14 day iso in Melbourne and now back in Brisbane by domestic.


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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by mickojak » April 19, 2020, 11:54 am

Just had 2 mates complete their 14 day iso in Melbourne and now back in Brisbane by domestic.

Barney, do they now need to do another 14 days iso in Bris?
Mick

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by cjd01 » April 19, 2020, 11:55 am

Barney wrote:
April 19, 2020, 11:45 am
cjd01 wrote:
Barney wrote:
April 18, 2020, 5:24 pm
cjd01 wrote:Ok Tam
I take your point, however I'm sure that if I could board a flight from Bangkok to Sydney, never mind what test I've had to get on the plane, I'd be going into quarantine, it wouldn't matter what I believed or wanted.
Some of us might die of old age in our lock down prisons before a vaccine is available.
You might be able to test the process of who can travel and how you may be tested next week.
Australia and Thai air are trying to get 1 flight Bkk to Syd next week on the 25th.
26,000 bht 1 way. Only room for 300 odd. Good luck in the lottery if you want to go home.
Assume they may bring Thais back. Also assume still only 200 Thais incoming a day.
Yes there is 14 day isolation in a hotel room on arrival in Sydney.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the info, my final destination is Brisbane so would rather do the quarantine there, I see there are some options in May, Udon - Chang Mai - Taipei - Brisbane
Now just have to work out how to get back, Dr letter stating no covid should be ok but $100000 US Dollar covid insurance maybe not so easy.
Hopefully by May it will bring some lifting of restrictions on flights.
The small info from the Aussie embassy says that there are 2,000 or more Aussies registered with the BKK embassy. Last count was approx 600 wanted to leave thailand. The 300 seat allocation will be randomly chosen with families with kids first. The couples, then singles.
People, out of the 2000 have been told to indicate by lunch on Monday if they want to return. If your not registered with the embassy by email you are not in the hunt.
You can see the lottery of only 300 seats. Some disappointed angry faces will be on show.
Have you checked Qatar airlines?
They were flying daily Bkk/Doha/Australia.
Not sure if that status now. Was about 2,500 or 3000 AUD.
The Australian embassy was also trying hard to allow people to transit through HK. Been difficult to have HK change there non transit rules.
So be patient I think and things may fall into place.
Just had 2 mates complete their 14 day iso in Melbourne and now back in Brisbane by domestic.


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Again great info, you've cleared up one area for me, so domestic Mel to Bne no second quarantine?
That was my concern flying into anywhere in Aus then having a second quarantine going home

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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by sometimewoodworker » April 19, 2020, 12:01 pm

cjd01 wrote:
April 19, 2020, 9:15 am
Barney wrote:
April 18, 2020, 5:24 pm
cjd01 wrote:Ok Tam
I take your point, however I'm sure that if I could board a flight from Bangkok to Sydney, never mind what test I've had to get on the plane, I'd be going into quarantine, it wouldn't matter what I believed or wanted.
Some of us might die of old age in our lock down prisons before a vaccine is available.
You might be able to test the process of who can travel and how you may be tested next week.
Australia and Thai air are trying to get 1 flight Bkk to Syd next week on the 25th.
26,000 bht 1 way. Only room for 300 odd. Good luck in the lottery if you want to go home.
Assume they may bring Thais back. Also assume still only 200 Thais incoming a day.
Yes there is 14 day isolation in a hotel room on arrival in Sydney.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the info, my final destination is Brisbane so would rather do the quarantine there, I see there are some options in May, Udon - Chang Mai - Taipei - Brisbane
Now just have to work out how to get back, Dr letter stating no covid should be ok but $100000 US Dollar covid insurance maybe not so easy.
Round trips even with a long to very long period in country are likely to be extremely problematic in the short term.

I would not expect a return from Australia to be easy for many months if at all this year.

From your post that seems to be what you would like. You may well be able to get the insurance from a Thai company (for use in Thailand) before you travel
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by mak » April 19, 2020, 12:57 pm

COVID Box.
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by vincemunday » April 19, 2020, 1:09 pm

32 new cases, still doing okay.
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Re: Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

Post by Barney » April 19, 2020, 3:33 pm

mickojak wrote:Just had 2 mates complete their 14 day iso in Melbourne and now back in Brisbane by domestic.

Barney, do they now need to do another 14 days iso in Bris?
Mick
Mick they are home with their family.
No 2nd isolation.


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