US declares 30-day European travel ban.

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tamada
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US declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 10:34 am

Effective midnight on Friday and applies to 27 nations excluding the UK.

Last edited by tamada on March 12, 2020, 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by anefarious1 » March 12, 2020, 10:36 am

You mean IMPOTUS - Impotent President of the United States

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 10:39 am

No, he was elected POTUS so can we agree to keep this WORLD NEWS thread free of petty partisan rhetoric? There are more than enough threads in the US politics forum for that.

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 12, 2020, 10:50 am

During that speech he shut down all travel including cargo.
This had to be rapidly contradicted so it only applies to passengers not cargo.

The exemption for US citizens seems to be pointless however unless military flights are also permitted as there will be no flights for them unless they go through the U.K. or Canada.

The Ban is Shengen region so the U.K. is not included which is quite strange as the infection in the U.K. is quite widespread
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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 11:04 am

As the internal Chinese travel lock down showed and the belated Italian national shut-in will hopefully also show, travel bans can only slow the contagion and not prevent it and enable national health services the breathing space to cope. This US-European travel ban will assist in the containment at the current hubs of infection in the US that they claim were 'seeded by travelers from Europe'.

The upside is that Wuhan reported its first single-digit increase in infected persons since the epidemic started.

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 11:07 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
March 12, 2020, 10:50 am
During that speech he shut down all travel including cargo.
This had to be rapidly contradicted so it only applies to passengers not cargo.

The exemption for US citizens seems to be pointless however unless military flights are also permitted as there will be no flights for them unless they go through the U.K. or Canada.

The Ban is Shengen region so the U.K. is not included which is quite strange as the infection in the U.K. is quite widespread
Politics still play an important part when you have to decide who is important and who is not.

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 12, 2020, 11:37 am

tamada wrote:
March 12, 2020, 11:04 am
As the internal Chinese travel lock down showed and the belated Italian national shut-in will hopefully also show, travel bans can only slow the contagion and not prevent it and enable national health services the breathing space to cope. This US-European travel ban will assist in the containment at the current hubs of infection in the US that they claim were 'seeded by travelers from Europe'.

The upside is that Wuhan reported its first single-digit increase in infected persons since the epidemic started.
I only have access to the abstract of a very relevant paper dated jan/feb 2020
An integrative review of the limited evidence on international travel bans as an emerging infectious disease disaster control measure. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32 ... t=abstract
However it seems to suggest from its title that the banns are totally political and unfounded in science. They are a panacea to demonstrate that action, however misguided, is being taken

That you can and probably should have screening measures is clear

PS I have located the paper and am currently reading it. There is one very important sentence
A systematic review of the literature of travel restrictions in influenza control found that the available evidence does not support their use for the rapid containment of influenza.
so given that the virus like influenzas is a coronavirus and it’s infection route is similar to the flu (unlike the coronavirses MERS & SARS) the travel ban will not work and will certainly bankrupt some airlines.
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on March 12, 2020, 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by GT93 » March 12, 2020, 12:03 pm

A hugely disruptive move.

Team Trump probably spent many days discussing this and reviewing the evidence and gaming outcomes. Hopefully Trump was able to concentrate and keep up with the wonks. I fear he didn't and just saw it as payback to the many hassles he's had from EU leaders.

30 days won't be long enough. If it's a great success we're going to hear about it in November.

Does Trump have the balls to can it if it isn't working at 30 days?

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 12:08 pm

^^ The subject title "An integrative review of the limited evidence on international travel bans as an emerging infectious disease disaster control measure" only suggests that there's "limited evidence" that prevents an informed decision regarding the effectiveness of travel bans being easily determined. I don't see any suggestion that it is solely a political tool.

Limiting the travel of infected and as-yet uninfected persons was an essential control way back during the Black Death. Unfortunately, the rats didn't get the memo.

Covid-19's inexplicably higher rate of contagion, far exceeding anything that SARS or MERS delivered, probably does add to the argument that the only effective travel ban would have been a more draconian, global one called way back in January. With the WHO's reticence in calling this what it really is, they do have a lot to answer for IMHO.

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 12:16 pm

GT93 wrote:
March 12, 2020, 12:03 pm
A hugely disruptive move.

Team Trump probably spent many days discussing this and reviewing the evidence and gaming outcomes. Hopefully Trump was able to concentrate and keep up with the wonks. I fear he didn't and just saw it as payback to the many hassles he's had from EU leaders.

30 days won't be long enough. If it's a great success we're going to hear about it in November.

Does Trump have the balls to can it if it isn't working at 30 days?
This thread is NOT about Donald Trump. The political commentary and critiques are over there... viewforum.php?f=137

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 12, 2020, 12:38 pm

GT93 wrote:
March 12, 2020, 12:03 pm
A hugely disruptive move.

Team Trump probably spent many days discussing this and reviewing the evidence and gaming outcomes. Hopefully Trump was able to concentrate and keep up with the wonks. I fear he didn't and just saw it as payback to the many hassles he's had from EU leaders.

30 days won't be long enough. If it's a great success we're going to hear about it in November.

Does Trump have the balls to can it if it isn't working at 30 days?
The payback theory is quite possibly correct. It’s also as I said unlikely to have a medical benefit.

Can Trump resist the airline industry along with the many others affected who will be fighting to get it ended at or before 30 days

Is this going to force what was only a potential recession into an actual full blown recession?

However I’m not sure exactly when in relation to the market close the announcement came, probably after the close, this will almost certainly cause the Dow to fall again tomorrow when trading begins again.

The fall in the stock market and economy are most likely to be the only things that will stop the re-election as long as the opposition can unite in putting full support into a single candidate maybe even a Biden/Sanders president /Vice President ticket. Not that I really think that would really happen.
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on March 12, 2020, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 12, 2020, 12:41 pm

tamada wrote:
March 12, 2020, 12:16 pm

This thread is NOT about Donald Trump. The political commentary and critiques are over there... viewforum.php?f=137
Regrettably it’s his actions that have put the ban into place so rather difficult to keep him out, don’t you think?

Going by everything known it is probably his political decision and may well not have been requested by any scientific advisors, if there are many left.
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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by jackspratt » March 12, 2020, 12:48 pm

It may be somewhere in the fine print, but what will happen to EU folk who just travel to the UK, and buy a ticket to the US from there?

And why is the UK exempt?

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Re: US declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 12:50 pm

Thread renamed for those that simply can't help themselves.

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 12, 2020, 12:54 pm

tamada wrote:
March 12, 2020, 12:08 pm
^^ The subject title "An integrative review of the limited evidence on international travel bans as an emerging infectious disease disaster control measure" only suggests that there's "limited evidence" that prevents an informed decision regarding the effectiveness of travel bans being easily determined. I don't see any suggestion that it is solely a political tool.
The point that makes the decision to be almost certainly political rather than science based is in the post script.

I may have added that while you were making your post so here it is.
PS I have located the paper and am currently reading it. There is one very important sentence
A systematic review of the literature of travel restrictions in influenza control found that the available evidence does not support their use for the rapid containment of influenza.
so given that the virus like influenzas is a coronavirus and it’s infection route is similar to the flu (unlike the coronavirses MERS & SARS) the travel ban will not work and will certainly bankrupt some airlines.
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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 12:56 pm

jackspratt wrote:
March 12, 2020, 12:48 pm
It may be somewhere in the fine print, but what will happen to EU folk who just travel to the UK, and buy a ticket to the US from there?

And why is the UK exempt?
Some ticket purchases may require a passport to be presented whereas all flight check-in's mandate the sighting of the traveler's passport. If they want to squander $$$ on being denied boarding in the UK, they can knock themselves out.

The strongest and singularly most important political, commercial, military and overall strategic alliance on the planet maybe?

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Re: POTUS declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by tamada » March 12, 2020, 1:00 pm

sometimewoodworker wrote:
March 12, 2020, 12:54 pm
tamada wrote:
March 12, 2020, 12:08 pm
^^ The subject title "An integrative review of the limited evidence on international travel bans as an emerging infectious disease disaster control measure" only suggests that there's "limited evidence" that prevents an informed decision regarding the effectiveness of travel bans being easily determined. I don't see any suggestion that it is solely a political tool.
The point that makes the decision to be almost certainly political rather than science based is in the post script.

I may have added that while you were making your post so here it is.
PS I have located the paper and am currently reading it. There is one very important sentence
A systematic review of the literature of travel restrictions in influenza control found that the available evidence does not support their use for the rapid containment of influenza.
so given that the virus like influenzas is a coronavirus and it’s infection route is similar to the flu (unlike the coronavirses MERS & SARS) the travel ban will not work and will certainly bankrupt some airlines.
I did edit my post after your more comprehensive post with the following comment.
tamada wrote:
March 12, 2020, 12:08 pm
Covid-19's inexplicably higher rate of contagion, far exceeding anything that SARS or MERS delivered, probably does add to the argument that the only effective travel ban would have been a more draconian, global one called way back in January. With the WHO's reticence in calling this what it really is, they do have a lot to answer for IMHO.

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Re: US declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by pipoz4444 » March 12, 2020, 4:01 pm

The USA is not the only Country to have announced temporary Travel Bans to and from select countries. Other smart Countries have. Other dumb Countries have not. :-k [-X

The current stated length of each temporary Travel Ban, whether it be 30 days or otherwise, is not relevant at this time and their ban duration will be determined by the course/trend and events of the virus containment. Also its impact now or later on the commerce of any Country is also irrelevant.

There is only one priority here, and that is to "Contain" the virus outbreak/spread, as best one can, first and so buy some time to develop a vaccine. Or guess what, you will have 5 Million or so people to vaccinate by the end of this year and a few hundred thousand dead. :-k :-k

Get over the Politics point scoring and look at the bigger picture

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Re: US declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by sometimewoodworker » March 12, 2020, 4:18 pm

With the WHO's reticence in calling this what it really is, they do have a lot to answer for IMHO.
That is not a straight forward call, in December/January CV19 was epidemic in a very few countries (China, South Korea, Iran ) it could not have been classed as a pandemic at that point.
a pandemic is “an epidemic occurring worldwide, or over a very wide area, crossing international boundaries and usually affecting a large number of people.”
The bold text is my emphasis.

So the WHO may have been later than some prefer in changing the designation but I fail to see in what way you consider them to “ a lot to answer for” as it’s nations who can act.
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Re: US declares 30-day European travel ban.

Post by GT93 » March 12, 2020, 4:30 pm

I think technically experts say the virus is past the point of containment in the US. The strategy is to minimize its impact and slow its spread. The ban supports that.

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