Labour's new leader

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vincemunday
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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 7, 2020, 1:53 pm

Less salubrious sponsors Tam? To be honest I had you down as someone who was quite intelligent, now i seriously have my doubts. As I've pointed out before, the rules on Party donations and the reporting of them are very, very strict, you don't just get the local gangster and his moll turn up with a suitcase of money ffs.

I never had anything to do with the Brexit Party other than a minor bit of activism, I was already in Thailand by the time it was founded. UKIP was funded by very respectable businessmen and it's membership, my guess is that many of the sponsors would have moved over as indeed would much of the membership, there are a great number of wealthy people who believe in his ability to change politics for the better and i'm sure many would have stuck with him, are still sticking with him.

IF he decides to found a new Party, i'm confident many of the old sponsors will want to donate but the vast majority of the money will come from the membership, people will join the party in their droves (as they did the Brexit Party) and i doubt funds will be the issue.


The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » April 7, 2020, 4:11 pm

vincemunday wrote:
April 7, 2020, 1:53 pm
Less salubrious sponsors Tam? To be honest I had you down as someone who was quite intelligent, now i seriously have my doubts. As I've pointed out before, the rules on Party donations and the reporting of them are very, very strict, you don't just get the local gangster and his moll turn up with a suitcase of money ffs.

I never had anything to do with the Brexit Party other than a minor bit of activism, I was already in Thailand by the time it was founded. UKIP was funded by very respectable businessmen and it's membership, my guess is that many of the sponsors would have moved over as indeed would much of the membership, there are a great number of wealthy people who believe in his ability to change politics for the better and i'm sure many would have stuck with him, are still sticking with him.

IF he decides to found a new Party, i'm confident many of the old sponsors will want to donate but the vast majority of the money will come from the membership, people will join the party in their droves (as they did the Brexit Party) and i doubt funds will be the issue.
I have never doubted your intelligence either notionally or on this forum. Neither have I slammed your political opinions. When I wrote in an earlier post that I respect your opinions, I meant it.

If he still has the popular and financial support, why does he need to start a new party? What's wrong with the Brexit Party as-is?

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 7, 2020, 4:53 pm

The secret is in the name "BREXIT", many of the people who stood for the Brexit Party were staunch Labourites and Conservatives, they joined because they felt the govt should uphold the result of the referendum not because of any political leaning.
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by AlexO » April 7, 2020, 5:54 pm

vincemunday wrote:
April 7, 2020, 4:53 pm
The secret is in the name "BREXIT", many of the people who stood for the Brexit Party were staunch Labourites and Conservatives, they joined because they felt the govt should uphold the result of the referendum not because of any political leaning.
Absolutely correct. If Scotland ever commits collective suicide and becomes independent what do the SNP call themselves after that? Scottish Labour 2 with no allegiance to Labour.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » April 7, 2020, 6:21 pm

vincemunday wrote:
April 5, 2020, 6:34 pm
Back to the regular thread, when are we expecting Starmer to put out some kind of manifesto, does anyone know?
New party leaders don't arbitrarily issue manifestos unless there's been a putsch or coup, political parties do that. We wait until the party conference (c/o Zoom no doubt) so see what they've hatched. But for starters, we can look at his shadow cabinet and maybe get a sense who who gets top trumps, who gets an olive branch and who gets the table in the corner near the toilets? So, as Bamber Gascoigne used to say, here's your starter for ten.

The shadow cabinet in full:

• Keir Starmer, leader of the opposition.
• Angela Rayner, deputy leader and chair of the Labour party.
• Anneliese Dodds, shadow chancellor of the exchequer.
• Lisa Nandy, shadow foreign secretary.
• Nick Thomas-Symonds, shadow home secretary.
• Rachel Reeves, shadow chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.
• David Lammy, shadow justice secretary.
• John Healey, shadow defence secretary.
• Ed Miliband, shadow business, energy and industrial secretary.
• Emily Thornberry, shadow international trade secretary.
• Jonathan Reynolds, shadow work and pensions secretary.
• Jonathan Ashworth, shadow secretary of state for health and social care.
• Rebecca Long-Bailey, shadow education secretary.
• Jo Stevens, shadow digital, culture, media and sport secretary.
• Bridget Phillipson, shadow chief secretary to the Treasury.
• Luke Pollard, shadow environment, food and rural affairs secretary.
• Steve Reed, shadow communities and local government secretary.
• Thangam Debbonaire, shadow housing secretary.
• Jim McMahon, shadow transport secretary.
• Preet Kaur Gill, shadow international development secretary.
• Louise Haigh, shadow Northern Ireland secretary (interim while Tony Lloyd is in hospital being treated for coronavirus).
• Ian Murray, shadow Scotland secretary.
• Nia Griffith, shadow Wales secretary.
• Marsha de Cordova, shadow women and equalities secretary.
• Andy McDonald, shadow employment rights and protections secretary.
• Rosena Allin-Khan, shadow minister for mental health.
• Cat Smith, shadow minister for young people and voter engagement.
• Lord Falconer, shadow attorney general.
• Valerie Vaz, shadow leader of the house.
• Nick Brown, opposition chief whip.
• Lady Smith, shadow leader of the Lords.
• Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition chief whip.

Ed 'bacon lips' Milliband makes a 'welcome return' and I see that DM's "arrogant lump of posh lard" has gotten the international trade thingmie, apparently losing the shadow foreign secretary gig to Nandy. Is Rebecca Long-Bailey the only sop to Corbyn's failed dynasty in among this lot? Rayner could possibly have been one of those left on the back benches but she tended to distance herself from Corbyn's lot towards the end. Maybe she'll be a go-between?

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by Drunk Monkey » April 7, 2020, 7:27 pm

tamada wrote:
April 7, 2020, 6:21 pm
vincemunday wrote:
April 5, 2020, 6:34 pm
Back to the regular thread, when are we expecting Starmer to put out some kind of manifesto, does anyone know?
New party leaders don't arbitrarily issue manifestos unless there's been a putsch or coup, political parties do that. We wait until the party conference (c/o Zoom no doubt) so see what they've hatched. But for starters, we can look at his shadow cabinet and maybe get a sense who who gets top trumps, who gets an olive branch and who gets the table in the corner near the toilets? So, as Bamber Gascoigne used to say, here's your starter for ten.

The shadow cabinet in full:

• Keir Starmer, leader of the opposition.
• Angela Rayner, deputy leader and chair of the Labour party.
• Anneliese Dodds, shadow chancellor of the exchequer.
• Lisa Nandy, shadow foreign secretary.
• Nick Thomas-Symonds, shadow home secretary.
• Rachel Reeves, shadow chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.
• David Lammy, shadow justice secretary.
• John Healey, shadow defence secretary.
• Ed Miliband, shadow business, energy and industrial secretary.
Emily Thornberry, shadow international trade secretary.
• Jonathan Reynolds, shadow work and pensions secretary.
• Jonathan Ashworth, shadow secretary of state for health and social care.
• Rebecca Long-Bailey, shadow education secretary.
• Jo Stevens, shadow digital, culture, media and sport secretary.
• Bridget Phillipson, shadow chief secretary to the Treasury.
• Luke Pollard, shadow environment, food and rural affairs secretary.
• Steve Reed, shadow communities and local government secretary.
• Thangam Debbonaire, shadow housing secretary.
• Jim McMahon, shadow transport secretary.
• Preet Kaur Gill, shadow international development secretary.
• Louise Haigh, shadow Northern Ireland secretary (interim while Tony Lloyd is in hospital being treated for coronavirus).
• Ian Murray, shadow Scotland secretary.
• Nia Griffith, shadow Wales secretary.
• Marsha de Cordova, shadow women and equalities secretary.
• Andy McDonald, shadow employment rights and protections secretary.
• Rosena Allin-Khan, shadow minister for mental health.
• Cat Smith, shadow minister for young people and voter engagement.
• Lord Falconer, shadow attorney general.
• Valerie Vaz, shadow leader of the house.
• Nick Brown, opposition chief whip.
• Lady Smith, shadow leader of the Lords.
• Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition chief whip.

Ed 'bacon lips' Milliband makes a 'welcome return' and I see that DM's "arrogant lump of posh lard" has gotten the international trade thingmie, apparently losing the shadow foreign secretary gig to Nandy. Is Rebecca Long-Bailey the only sop to Corbyn's failed dynasty in among this lot? Rayner could possibly have been one of those left on the back benches but she tended to distance herself from Corbyn's lot towards the end. Maybe she'll be a go-between?
Well blow me ... the arrogant lard arse peasant hater gets a job .. CFBT.
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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 7, 2020, 9:06 pm

The Kier Starmer manifesto, more of the same.

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 8, 2020, 6:48 am

Sorry Tam, missed this and as usual you aren’t quite correct, ALL people standing for election issue a manifesto of sorts, even me when I stood, how will people know what they are voting for if you don’t?

“New party leaders don't arbitrarily issue manifestos unless there's been a putsch or coup, political parties do that.”
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » April 9, 2020, 12:08 pm

So, who's really backing Starmer? Owen's stalking horse?

https://novaramedia.com/2019/12/23/the- ... wen-smith/

Momentum's former leader pitched for him. Was this a "major blow for Rebecca Long-Bailey" and Momentum?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... -the-party

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » April 9, 2020, 3:04 pm

tamada wrote:
April 9, 2020, 12:08 pm
So, who's really backing Starmer? Owen's stalking horse?

https://novaramedia.com/2019/12/23/the- ... wen-smith/

Momentum's former leader pitched for him. Was this a "major blow for Rebecca Long-Bailey" and Momentum?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... -the-party
As much as I dislike momentum and what they stand for I have to admit they are usually very unified, I've not heard of much infighting and this, if it's correct, comes as bit of a shock even though I never saw Long-Bailey as a serious contender, even the dimmest of the dim had to realise her politics had been given a go by her mentor and they weren't popular to say the least. Knowing Momentum it wouldn't surprise me if there'd been a last minute change of heart and their collective weight was put behind Starmer, but I've not researched it.
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » May 22, 2020, 9:11 am

A big win for Keir Starmer... but this U-turn doesn’t mean Boris Johnson is weak

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... nson-weak/

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by vincemunday » May 22, 2020, 1:17 pm

tamada wrote:
May 22, 2020, 9:11 am
A big win for Keir Starmer... but this U-turn doesn’t mean Boris Johnson is weak

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... nson-weak/
I think this change of policy had the backing of the British public, he was right to U turn.
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » May 22, 2020, 3:11 pm

^ True and most of his Cabinet and pretty much all the backbenchers were against it too. Makes me wonder who's giving him advice in the first place? When Boris defends this at PMQ's and beyond only to change his mind maybe less than five hours later? Narrowly missed shooting his own foot. How could the advisers be so out of step?

Easy win for Starmer but maybe there's some obscure, political reverse logic at play here in that Starmer never wrestled an unlikely win against stern opposition.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » June 26, 2020, 10:06 am

Hey! Boris! This is how you get rid of political liabilities.

Sir Keir Starmer goes to war with hard-Left over anti-Semitism as he sacks Rebecca Long-Bailey

In a move denounced by John McDonnell and Mr Corbyn’s wife, Sir Keir ousted his shadow education secretary for retweeting a controversial interview with the actress Maxine Peake, whom she described as an “absolute diamond.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... s-rebecca/

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by Khun Paul » June 26, 2020, 3:24 pm

Wonderful news, but it has also upset that woman Diane Abbot, and all her cronies , it appears let the battle begin.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » June 26, 2020, 4:10 pm

Khun Paul wrote:
June 26, 2020, 3:24 pm
Wonderful news, but it has also upset that woman Diane Abbot, and all her cronies , it appears let the battle begin.
Yes KP, all the real lefty dinosaurs are having a hissy fit. Despite p!ssing all over the Corbynistas and getting the top job, Starmer's challenges with the Labour fossils were never going to go away that easily.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by Stantheman » June 26, 2020, 8:26 pm

tamada wrote:
June 26, 2020, 10:06 am
Hey! Boris! This is how you get rid of political liabilities.

Sir Keir Starmer goes to war with hard-Left over anti-Semitism as he sacks Rebecca Long-Bailey

In a move denounced by John McDonnell and Mr Corbyn’s wife, Sir Keir ousted his shadow education secretary for retweeting a controversial interview with the actress Maxine Peake, whom she described as an “absolute diamond.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... s-rebecca/
The "Hard Left" must be so far Left they became Hard Right as that's where most anti-Semitism is in the U.S.

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by caducus » June 27, 2020, 8:41 am

It would appear that Starmer's appointment of Rebecca Long-Bailey to his shadow cabinet, although seen as an inclusive gesture, was nothing more than a weakish sop to the left. As soon as she was deemed to have stepped out of line she was ditched.

What did she do? She posted an Independent newspaper interview with Maxine Peake, a well-known actor, and referred to her as a 'diamond'. In the interview, Ms. Peake had some less than kind words to say about the Israeli police force. Yet this is said to be anti-semitism?

I always thought that anti-semitism had something to do with denigrating the Jewish (and, incidentally, also the Arab) race. It has nothing to do with one's opinion about any Israeli institution or Israeli politician. Indeed, the leading Israeli English language newspaper has been very critical of their own police force.

Keir Starmer had the support of all those of the broad left. He could have been ruffling feathers in the cabinet and gunning for Robert Jenrick, but instead, he gets rid of a hard-working member of his own shadow cabinet. Who will be next? Or will he decide that the Tories are worth fighting? He has done very well with Prime Minister's Question Time. We now need to see him in action against the entire Conservative Party. Interesting times. What will happen next?

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » June 27, 2020, 9:36 am

Maxine Peake, by mentioning Mossad and Israeli police tactics, chose to foment fake news. This went as far as to promote the thought that the repression techniques commonly used by US police forces against black people has its origins in Israel. This in turn feeds the raging right who, in their hatred of anything Jewish, and greatly enabled by their ignorance, conflate with the Israeli state. Hence the paradox, that @Stantheman questioned, of the extreme left and right apparently feeding off each other. How better to "hide your light under a bushel"?

Long-Bailey, as a died in the wool Corbynite, is part of Labour's enduring problem. Yes, the shadow cabinet position that Starmer gave was undeniably a sop to that faction. However, if as she claims she didn't mean to endorse ALL that Ms Speake had written, then she's either guilty of not reading everything before blindly re-broadcasting it or she's simply lying. A senior statesman/woman would be expected to thoroughly read and question other people's opinions before endorsing in full. In this strange, new and dangerous world of 'policy by Twitter', public office holders really should be very careful on what they "like". There's more than enough gullible people already following the disingenuous via internet and social media.

With the back bench Tories up in arms about Johnson's acquiescent nod to both Cummings and Jenrick, instead of railing at the PM about what he should do to clean up his house, Starmer has given the PM a comprehensive lesson on both what should be done and how to do it. It also illuminated the thin ice that the anti-Semitic Corbyn and Momentum acolytes are skating on.

Winning!

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Re: Labour's new leader

Post by tamada » February 28, 2021, 10:40 am

...and then it all faded away.

Keir Starmer showed great promise, but Labour won't win without some policies

He has failed to hold the Tories to account on Brexit, and seems content to merely tread water in attracting voters

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-policies

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