The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

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AlexO
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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by AlexO » December 21, 2019, 5:11 pm

stattointhailand wrote:
December 21, 2019, 1:27 pm
Travel Industry will take a hit ....... who in their right minds would go if you had to get passports/visas to get rained (sorry "scotch misted") on =;
I am already in the poo with the moderators so will not respond as your post deserves. Just happy that my UK is no longer in the 4th Reich. Just watch what the French cops do to their own people to show what a wonderful organisation the EU is.



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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 21, 2019, 6:57 pm

Not a great fan of Galloway by a long chalk but that's about as concise a one can get when it comes to the key reasons to bide agither.

Must have been a Herculean effort for George to keep his ruminations inside the 2-minute warning though.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by papafarang » December 21, 2019, 7:23 pm

So the Scots want independence from England so they can hand over their independence to the Europeans and not be independent anymore.. yes that makes sense ,it that what you call an oxymoron, we want our freedom to give away :D
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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Drunk Monkey » December 21, 2019, 7:42 pm

papafarang wrote:
December 21, 2019, 7:23 pm
So the Scots want independence from England so they can hand over their independence to the Europeans and not be independent anymore.. yes that makes sense ,it that what you call an oxymoron, we want our freedom to give away :D
Never really thought about it that way ..but im.sure IF n its a big IF the Scots do have a othrr ONCE in a generation indref 2 n it goes the way of Strugeon n Co .. would that mean they would then need another ONCE in a generation ref3 this time the Rejoinref3 ..getting more complicated than which comes first the neeps nay tatties.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by vincemunday » December 21, 2019, 8:48 pm

I think they should be allowed to have indyref#2, there’s not much point delaying it, it’ll sort out the issue once and for all and to be honest there’s a few like me who would quite happily see them jog along and watch them fall apart. The EU have already told them they will have to go to the back of the queue, all the current conjecture about them being able to jump the queue is just that, conjecture and that’s assuming they win the referendum in the first place which on the face of it isn’t exactly a given.
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by papafarang » December 22, 2019, 5:17 am

No I recon strait to the top of he list myself, all that oil and gas will bring in billions to the EU. But yes if you think about it there is no such thing as independence if your a member of the EU, that's the whole point of being in the EU.. all you get is Brussels making your laws , they do give you overpaid euro MP's who's job it is to tell you how great it is for you to be paying vast quantities of tax to the EU, which seems to be all euro MP's job is. So once independent Scotland will have two budgets , their own and everyone else's in Europe. Oh a that tax bill just grew substantially. So good luck with that not so real independence vote. Funny really that we have gone through so much to gain independence from Europe only to find Scotland don't want it,..but is does..no it don't. I think it would mean you need two referendums, might as well do them both on the same ballot
Do you want independence from the UK
Do you want to give up independence to the EU
Got to laugh at that one
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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Drunk Monkey » December 22, 2019, 8:08 am

U could be onto something Dean ..

One ref .. does it all ..but bearing in mind the stupid yokel.illiterate Brits (according to all remoaners) didnt understand Leave or Remain in 2016 .. is it feesable

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by joudon » December 22, 2019, 8:33 am

Scottish representation in Westminster is 48 MP's in a house of 650.
Scottish representation in Brussels is 3 MEP's in a chamber of 751.
When Sturgeon was quizzed by members of Scottish fishermen's groups about the way Brussels 'unfairly ' controlled the fishing, she replied that she would seek to renegotiate quotas with Brussels.
Brussels renegotiating or compromising, what a laugh. Just look at what Cameron achieved before the referendum ...."sweet fk all"
Sturgeon is surely not of this planet.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by vincemunday » December 22, 2019, 11:52 am

I’m with you Joudon, she’s the loudest but the the brightest! The EU have already said there are others in the queue to join their club and allowing Scotland to jump the queue as it were might upset one or two of them. Isn’t the oil owned by the companies who own the rigs and unless I’m mistaken they pay their taxes in their domicile countries so all being equal that might require a legal challenge by the Scottish government? As it is they aren’t solvent, they are a net recipient of funds from the U.K. will the EU want to take on another debtor?
The forest was shrinking daily but the trees kept voting for the axe as its handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 22, 2019, 12:33 pm

vincemunday wrote:
December 21, 2019, 8:48 pm
I think they should be allowed to have indyref#2, there’s not much point delaying it, it’ll sort out the issue once and for all and to be honest there’s a few like me who would quite happily see them jog along and watch them fall apart. The EU have already told them they will have to go to the back of the queue, all the current conjecture about them being able to jump the queue is just that, conjecture and that’s assuming they win the referendum in the first place which on the face of it isn’t exactly a given.
There's absolutely NOTHING to 'sort out' though. Whatever the SNP perceives as a mandate for Indyref2 remains only that, an SNP perception. A cynical, pre-Scottish election marketing ploy. The fact that more Scots indicated they wanted to stay in the EU in 2016 can not by any measure be claimed to have negated the value of their 2014 independence vote. Having more seats in the 'big hoose' means nothing in this regard. Next year they will be having the Scottish elections where the SNP already have a far larger presence in their 'wee hoose'. This rote independence tub thumping is all about getting a tangible majority and bugger all else. The current SNP 'majority' in Holyrood is falsely claimed through their 62 seats, so Scottish Labour with their 23 MSP's and the Scottish Tories withe their 31 MSP's need to focus on jamming a stick in the spokes of the SNP election bike up north.

The SNP cannot claim to be the voice of the Scottish nation when simple statistics show that more people voted for other, non-separatist parties than voted for the SNP in this months election. I am surprised that none of the leading lights of British media have mentioned that whenever Sturgeon regurgitates her boring, splitist spiel. Maybe, just maybe nobody is taking her seriously enough to bother?

Although I am still a Unionist, I take umbrage at the argument to just let Scotland leave solely in order to relish their failure. Unless in jest, to gloat over another's misfortune, especially that of fellow British nationals seems a wee bit malicious. This loathing is laughable when you consider most of the Englanders don't appreciate the huge financial imbalance between London's southeast and their own distant bit of the Realm. The Scots aren't the ones fudging your budget, it's those of your own ilk that mostly has their hand in your pocket.

I recall a whole armpit of England getting royally upset when a mischievous whole-page advert cheering on Iceland in the 2016 Euro's was taken out in the UK national press. Then there was the London-centric media framing the question if Wales needed to apologize for celebrating England's subsequent national humiliation when they lost to Iceland and the Welsh team needing to defend those celebrations. Diddums much?

But I guess the few, irrelevant old English nationalists will eventually die, along with their blue-faced, red-haired kin north of Hadrian's.
Last edited by tamada on December 22, 2019, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 22, 2019, 12:42 pm

vincemunday wrote:
December 22, 2019, 11:52 am
I’m with you Joudon, she’s the loudest but the the brightest! The EU have already said there are others in the queue to join their club and allowing Scotland to jump the queue as it were might upset one or two of them. Isn’t the oil owned by the companies who own the rigs and unless I’m mistaken they pay their taxes in their domicile countries so all being equal that might require a legal challenge by the Scottish government? As it is they aren’t solvent, they are a net recipient of funds from the U.K. will the EU want to take on another debtor?
I think the 'Scottish oil' bit is only a whopping 3% of their contribution to UK national GDP so a proverbial drop in the bucket. The horse has long bolted on that one being in any way relevant but the SNP chooses to ignore the memo.

The UK (under Westminster's tutelage) has horrendously and consistently under-invested in their share of the North Sea's hydrocarbons. One can only gaze longingly at Norway's sovereign wealth fund for so long before turning around and walking away, shaking one's head and pondering what might have been.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by vincemunday » December 23, 2019, 7:52 am

Tam, I think you’ll find they have less seats in the HoC than they did when you last held an idyref. It cannot be denied though that the SNP manifesto overwhelmingly supported another referendum and they gained a huge majority and on that basis it obviously means that the concept is hugely supported and I firmly believe the subject needs to be put to bed one way or the other. By the by it matters not how many people voted for which party, unfortunate we don’t have proportional representation. Insofar as being malicious, no one in their right mind would want to see Scotland fall apart but if indyref2 indicates people want to leave the union then I think we should let them and let them face the consequences of independence, stop them using our currency, stop supporting theirs, God forbid let them join the € if that’s what they want, let them collect and spend their own taxes etc, if people are that dim that they’d vote for Jimmy Cranky to run their country then to be fair it’s their decision, IMO not a very bright one but it’s their call.
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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by hairyharry » December 23, 2019, 8:41 am

Build a Trump wall just north of Watford and get rid of the mill stone of the north once and for all. Introduce a new "servants" Visa to allow access to those who can speak English (there aren't many of them). Easy.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by AlexO » December 23, 2019, 2:11 pm

It cannot be denied though that the SNP manifesto overwhelmingly supported another referendum and they gained a huge majority and on that basis it obviously means that the concept is hugely supported and I firmly believe the subject needs to be put to bed one way or the other. By the by it matters not how many people voted for which party, unfortunate we don’t have proportional representation.


I think that is where the theory of having a majority of seats as opposed to the number of people who did not vote for them falls down when it comes to a referendum Vince. Its a good bet that those that did not vote for the SNP (and some of the people who voted for the SNP as a protest against Labour as well) will also not vote for Independence in a referendum. So unless the SNP try to use the same trick as 2014 and allow 16 year old's to vote (that did not work either) the signs are that another 'NAW' outcome is on the cards. This GE result really just echo's polls results in Scotland since 2014 where a 55/45% split for staying in the UK is the norm.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 24, 2019, 12:33 am

AlexO wrote:
December 23, 2019, 2:11 pm
It cannot be denied though that the SNP manifesto overwhelmingly supported another referendum and they gained a huge majority and on that basis it obviously means that the concept is hugely supported and I firmly believe the subject needs to be put to bed one way or the other. By the by it matters not how many people voted for which party, unfortunate we don’t have proportional representation.


I think that is where the theory of having a majority of seats as opposed to the number of people who did not vote for them falls down when it comes to a referendum Vince. Its a good bet that those that did not vote for the SNP (and some of the people who voted for the SNP as a protest against Labour as well) will also not vote for Independence in a referendum. So unless the SNP try to use the same trick as 2014 and allow 16 year old's to vote (that did not work either) the signs are that another 'NAW' outcome is on the cards. This GE result really just echo's polls results in Scotland since 2014 where a 55/45% split for staying in the UK is the norm.
As mentioned earlier, about 1.2 million voted SNP and about 1.4 million didn't.

No mandate. Nicola should stand in the corner, face the wall and repeat 100 times, "I will not waste the Scottish taxpayers money on any more futile attempts to give them something they don't want."

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Drunk Monkey » December 25, 2019, 1:32 am

Heres an interesting take on SINDREF2.. and an SNP mp crossing his pinkies ..naughty naughty

Btw the vid contains very strong n shocking language ..made Dm blush

Enjoy

https://youtu.be/eOXuWNKzx_Q

Dm.
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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Bonanza » December 25, 2019, 11:22 am

There have been thirty years of terrorism and more than three thousand deaths in Northern Ireland on the topic of whether or not to join with the Republic of Ireland. Has the SNP thought that there might be some fanatics in Scotland (and England) who consider a break away from the UK unacceptable? It only takes one!! :shock:

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by AlexO » December 25, 2019, 7:19 pm

https://youtu.be/eOXuWNKzx_Q

Dm.
[/quote]

Wish I was allowed to say even a wee bit of that. Just remember we are not all anti English, anti Monarchy republican ass wipes.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by AlexO » December 25, 2019, 7:33 pm

Bonanza wrote:
December 25, 2019, 11:22 am
There have been thirty years of terrorism and more than three thousand deaths in Northern Ireland on the topic of whether or not to join with the Republic of Ireland. Has the SNP thought that there might be some fanatics in Scotland (and England) who consider a break away from the UK unacceptable? It only takes one!! :shock:
Drunk Monkey wrote:
December 25, 2019, 1:32 am
Heres an interesting take on SINDREF2.. and an SNP mp crossing his pinkies ..naughty naughty

Mr Alex Salmond (former 1st Minister of Scotland) who is currently facing some 10 different charges of rape and sexual assault was in the early days chucked out of the SNP because of his support of the IRA's methods of trying to achieve Independence for NI from the UK.
He privately attended the funeral and paid his respects to Martin McGuiness who is generally acknowledged as the second worst terrorist after Gerry (I am not in the IRA) Adams. There are many republican SNP supporters who would quite happily revert to a violent protest such as we seen in NI to achieve the breakup of the UK. Hopefully history is not going to repeat itself.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by stattointhailand » January 2, 2020, 6:35 pm


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