The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

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tamada
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The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 20, 2019, 2:56 pm

Since the UK has a new parliament with everyone suddenly claiming new mandates to do everything they claim and we are collectively racing towards a New Year, I thought it prescient to start a new, more up-to-date Indyref2 thread. So I have lifted part of an earlier post of mine from the now moribund UK election thread in the hope of getting more specific traction and debate.

I am a Unionist like my father was before me. In 2014, when regardless of my birthright, Alex Salmond denied me my referendum vote, I became a staunch Unionist. Years roll by with plenty white noise from the SNP that I swatted away but with Brexit and the recent election, it's getting a bit noisier.

At first glance at the election results and much being made (by the SNP) about their electoral gains in Scotland and thus in Westminster as being a mandate for a second referendum. Somewhat distractedly, I briefly entertained that notion. A majority is a majority after all, isn't it? Then I had a shuftie at the actual vote count rather than looking at maps showing a broad swathe of yellow.

SNP aka Leavers = 1,242,372

Lib/Lab/Lib Dem aka Remainers = 1,496,316

Even if you add the Brexit Party's 13,243 votes and using the SNP's own, unscientific reasoning as to what constitutes a mandate to possibly leave the Union, more people voted NOT to leave the Union.

I think wee Nicola should haud her wheesht (but you know this already).



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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by saint » December 20, 2019, 3:56 pm

This may rock the boat , but im all for Scottish independence ! Providing it is full independence .
They cut themselves off from the rest of Britain totally , financially .
They have their own health service , their own education system , their own defence , their own currency , make their own laws , their own passports , ect , ect . But above all they pay for all of it themselves .
It would save the British tax payers billions every year .
However if its just a case of cherry picking , which i fear old no lips sturgeon is after , then NO .
To become a completely independent country is im affraid nothing but a pipe dream , that will never happen .
If it did , Scotland the brave would be Scotland the skint in less than a few years , unless they can get the E U to prop them up as Britain has for centuries . Which i doubt very much , as the E U have pretty much indicated in the past they dont even want them in the club . So good luck with that pipe dream .

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 20, 2019, 4:22 pm

saint wrote:
December 20, 2019, 3:56 pm
This may rock the boat , but im all for Scottish independence ! Providing it is full independence .
They cut themselves off from the rest of Britain totally , financially .
They have their own health service , their own education system , their own defence , their own currency , make their own laws , their own passports , ect , ect . But above all they pay for all of it themselves .
It would save the British tax payers billions every year .
However if its just a case of cherry picking , which i fear old no lips sturgeon is after , then NO .
To become a completely independent country is im affraid nothing but a pipe dream , that will never happen .
If it did , Scotland the brave would be Scotland the skint in less than a few years , unless they can get the E U to prop them up as Britain has for centuries . Which i doubt very much , as the E U have pretty much indicated in the past they dont even want them in the club . So good luck with that pipe dream .
I don't think that 'old no lips sturgeon' is after anything less than what you desire. Total independence and not just some degree of further devolution.

Soooo saint, which Scottish personage in particular pissed in your Cornflakes?

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by AlexO » December 20, 2019, 5:15 pm

saint wrote:
December 20, 2019, 3:56 pm
This may rock the boat , but im all for Scottish independence ! Providing it is full independence .
They cut themselves off from the rest of Britain totally , financially .
They have their own health service , their own education system , their own defence , their own currency , make their own laws , their own passports , ect , ect . But above all they pay for all of it themselves .
It would save the British tax payers billions every year .
However if its just a case of cherry picking , which i fear old no lips sturgeon is after , then NO .
To become a completely independent country is im affraid nothing but a pipe dream , that will never happen .
If it did , Scotland the brave would be Scotland the skint in less than a few years , unless they can get the E U to prop them up as Britain has for centuries . Which i doubt very much , as the E U have pretty much indicated in the past they dont even want them in the club . So good luck with that pipe dream .
Saint
Not that I am an advocate for breaking up the UK in anyway but I can understand why a great many will claim that Scottish oil revenue taxes have been subsidising the lower half of the UK since the 70's to the tune of many, many Billions. If Scotland had bailed out back in the 70's the UK or what is left of it would not be in the same position as it is now. I am of the firm opinion that Scotland is 50 years too late for independence. But most of us did not object to helping out our southern cousins over that 50 years.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Chuchi » December 20, 2019, 5:53 pm

tamada wrote:
December 20, 2019, 2:56 pm
Since the UK has a new parliament with everyone suddenly claiming new mandates to do everything they claim and we are collectively racing towards a New Year, I thought it prescient to start a new, more up-to-date Indyref2 thread. So I have lifted part of an earlier post of mine from the now moribund UK election thread in the hope of getting more specific traction and debate.

I am a Unionist like my father was before me. In 2014, when regardless of my birthright, Alex Salmond denied me my referendum vote, I became a staunch Unionist. Years roll by with plenty white noise from the SNP that I swatted away but with Brexit and the recent election, it's getting a bit noisier.

At first glance at the election results and much being made (by the SNP) about their electoral gains in Scotland and thus in Westminster as being a mandate for a second referendum. Somewhat distractedly, I briefly entertained that notion. A majority is a majority after all, isn't it? Then I had a shuftie at the actual vote count rather than looking at maps showing a broad swathe of yellow.

SNP aka Leavers = 1,242,372

Lib/Lab/Lib Dem aka Remainers = 1,496,316

Even if you add the Brexit Party's 13,243 votes and using the SNP's own, unscientific reasoning as to what constitutes a mandate to possibly leave the Union, more people voted NOT to leave the Union.

I think wee Nicola should haud her wheesht (but you know this already).
I’d be interested to know how harmonious the SNP leadership are about joining the EU Tam.” Independence and freedom “ are not two words I would associate with the protectionist racket across the channel.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Khun Paul » December 20, 2019, 6:03 pm

tamada wrote:
December 20, 2019, 4:22 pm
saint wrote:
December 20, 2019, 3:56 pm
This may rock the boat , but im all for Scottish independence ! Providing it is full independence .
They cut themselves off from the rest of Britain totally , financially .
They have their own health service , their own education system , their own defence , their own currency , make their own laws , their own passports , ect , ect . But above all they pay for all of it themselves .
It would save the British tax payers billions every year .
However if its just a case of cherry picking , which i fear old no lips sturgeon is after , then NO .
To become a completely independent country is im affraid nothing but a pipe dream , that will never happen .
If it did , Scotland the brave would be Scotland the skint in less than a few years , unless they can get the E U to prop them up as Britain has for centuries . Which i doubt very much , as the E U have pretty much indicated in the past they dont even want them in the club . So good luck with that pipe dream .
I don't think that 'old no lips sturgeon' is after anything less than what you desire. Total independence and not just some degree of further devolution.

Soooo saint, which Scottish personage in particular pissed in your Cornflakes?
I quite agree rebuild the friggin wall, insert customs checks, shame aboiut the Hebribean Islands as they want to stay . let them find out just how bloody costly it is to pay A HEAD OF STATE, PRESIDENT ETC AND FUND THEIR OWN GOVT, I am sure the traditional scottish thrift will decide its too bloody expensive that is without joining the EU that is if they let them . They will have to make their own money .
Go for it save THE ENGLISH WELSH AND N IRISH TAXPAYERS BILLIONS `

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by hairyharry » December 20, 2019, 6:38 pm

Am I correct in thinking no Cod quotas for English fishermen after 2020 - they can catch as much as they like? Crikey, free of the EU and Scots as well. Bring it on. [-o<

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Drunk Monkey » December 20, 2019, 6:48 pm

saint wrote:
December 20, 2019, 3:56 pm
This may rock the boat , but im all for Scottish independence ! Providing it is full independence .
They cut themselves off from the rest of Britain totally , financially .
They have their own health service , their own education system , their own defence , their own currency , make their own laws , their own passports , ect , ect . But above all they pay for all of it themselves .
It would save the British tax payers billions every year .
However if its just a case of cherry picking , which i fear old no lips sturgeon is after , then NO .
To become a completely independent country is im affraid nothing but a pipe dream , that will never happen .
If it did , Scotland the brave would be Scotland the skint in less than a few years , unless they can get the E U to prop them up as Britain has for centuries . Which i doubt very much , as the E U have pretty much indicated in the past they dont even want them in the club . So good luck with that pipe dream .
Yes cant argue with that saint but it aint gonna happen ..our string vest weari g brothers cohersed Sturgeon will.want their cake n eat it at the expense of us hard working British taxpayers .. and still.the Rab Cs will.tax us onn haggis kilts sporans wiskey porridge oats ...n watching SPL.footy 555 last one is a joke Tam.

If your idea does come to fruition Saint how lo g before cranky is strung up n the Jockenese want to come back.n play ?? Not long im.guessing .

Dm .. Mcmonkey
Claret n Blue all way thru .. Up the Iron
L2 Season 19/20 Codheads 0 Scunny 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2qrsItFUug
8 minutes is the point of lift off !!!!!!!

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by thecroc4 » December 20, 2019, 7:08 pm

Personally, I think scotland will thrive without Johnson and co dictating what they should do.
Last edited by thecroc4 on December 21, 2019, 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Barney » December 20, 2019, 8:22 pm

Was there not a democratic vote a few years back?
With a stay put result.
Are the scots now not accepting that result?


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Re: The all new

Post by AlexO » December 20, 2019, 9:35 pm

Barney wrote:
December 20, 2019, 8:22 pm
Was there not a democratic vote a few years back?
With a stay put result.
Are the scots now not accepting that result?


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They did not, never have and never will. They are the same as the Irish Republicans, don't accept anything if it disagrees with you. They lost the last one even though they allowed school kids to vote, Scots unionism is way stronger than that bunch of tartan terriers.

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Re: The all new

Post by dunroaming » December 20, 2019, 10:33 pm

Barney wrote:
December 20, 2019, 8:22 pm
Was there not a democratic vote a few years back?
With a stay put result.
Are the scots now not accepting that result?


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Yes there was a vote that was tainted by scare mongering with regards to pensions for one that resulted in a huge sway of votes the other way. The results this time show the Scots want to remain part of the EU but to leave and join is a huge effort so again the jury is out on what the results would be of another referendum. I am Scottish but my heart says go alone but my brain says better together.

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Re: The all new

Post by AlexO » December 21, 2019, 12:16 am

dunroaming wrote:
December 20, 2019, 10:33 pm
Barney wrote:
December 20, 2019, 8:22 pm
Was there not a democratic vote a few years back?
With a stay put result.
Are the scots now not accepting that result?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes there was a vote that was tainted by scare mongering with regards to pensions for one that resulted in a huge sway of votes the other way. The results this time show the Scots want to remain part of the EU but to leave and join is a huge effort so again the jury is out on what the results would be of another referendum. I am Scottish but my heart says go alone but my brain says better together.
1st question, is that you coming from the far frozen North. Not pensions or how the Indy's are going to "pay their way " "we will use the pound sterling as our currency" no you will not you halfwits, that's not indepedunce until the EU say you have to use the Euro for them to subsides you. The results show that a normally slightly left wing Labour supporting voter base can be manipulated, just wait until the breakup of the Union is the question.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 21, 2019, 1:00 am

hairyharry wrote:
December 20, 2019, 6:38 pm
Am I correct in thinking no Cod quotas for English fishermen after 2020 - they can catch as much as they like? Crikey, free of the EU and Scots as well. Bring it on. [-o<
No you're not correct. It's Johnson's kool-aid you've been drinking again.

"A crucial myth Brexiteers have exploited is of a single British fishing industry, which would benefit en masse from reclaiming the seas. But in reality there are competing interests: deep-sea versus inshore fishing; industrial versus family-scale boats; fishers versus processors.

The CFP, first established in 1983, fixed quotas based on historic fishing rights. French fishermen now fear Brexit will exclude them from "British" waters, where they have fished for centuries, as have fishers from Ireland, Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands and Germany. The UK post-Brexit will be obliged by the UN law of the sea to negotiate conservation and access deals with its neighbors.

Another source of resentment has been so-called quota hoppers, foreign-owned ship owners using British registration to use UK waters to fish.

And while it is true that Dutch-, Spanish-, or Icelandic-owned "flagships" control a chunk of the English quota and the UK's small scale, and "inshore" vessels have a quota of less than 2%, some 29% of the UK's fishing quota is in the hands of five families and two-thirds of the UK's fishing quota is in the hands of 25 companies. An Unearthed investigation last year found that the quota hoppers hold 13% of UK quota.

Four of the biggest UK quota holders have even formed their own "in-house" producer organization, allowing private companies to directly hold and trade quota domestically and internationally.

At the end of 2018, the European Commission started proceedings against London over its management of producer organizations, but that is on hold pending the Brexit outcome.

The UK fishing industry depends to a large extent on shellfish, lobsters, crabs and langostines, which are quota-free or overwhelmingly allocated to the UK. Furthermore, over 80% is sold mostly to Spain and France and the trade has grown large due to the border-free EU single market.

British shellfish sales to the EU (mostly France and Spain) are worth 430 million pounds a year — more than a quarter of all UK fish exports by value.

Added to all this, there is no guarantee the UK will win new quota in the Brexit negotiations. Other EU member states will fight to retain their access to UK waters. Should the quota dividend not be won by London, Brexit will then have very little to offer its angry fishermen."


https://www.dw.com/en/uk-fishing-indust ... a-51418061

BTW, Brixham, with a turnover of £35m in 2018, is the biggest fishing port in England but is a very distant second to Peterhead in SCOTLAND which had the highest UK fleet landings of 151 thousand tonnes with a value of £167 million in 2018.

It's Scotland's oil AND it's Scotland's fish. Sucks to be wee Englanders, eh?

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 21, 2019, 1:16 am

Khun Paul wrote:
December 20, 2019, 6:03 pm
tamada wrote:
December 20, 2019, 4:22 pm
saint wrote:
December 20, 2019, 3:56 pm
This may rock the boat , but im all for Scottish independence ! Providing it is full independence .
They cut themselves off from the rest of Britain totally , financially .
They have their own health service , their own education system , their own defence , their own currency , make their own laws , their own passports , ect , ect . But above all they pay for all of it themselves .
It would save the British tax payers billions every year .
However if its just a case of cherry picking , which i fear old no lips sturgeon is after , then NO .
To become a completely independent country is im affraid nothing but a pipe dream , that will never happen .
If it did , Scotland the brave would be Scotland the skint in less than a few years , unless they can get the E U to prop them up as Britain has for centuries . Which i doubt very much , as the E U have pretty much indicated in the past they dont even want them in the club . So good luck with that pipe dream .
I don't think that 'old no lips sturgeon' is after anything less than what you desire. Total independence and not just some degree of further devolution.

Soooo saint, which Scottish personage in particular pissed in your Cornflakes?
I quite agree rebuild the friggin wall, insert customs checks, shame aboiut the Hebribean Islands as they want to stay . let them find out just how bloody costly it is to pay A HEAD OF STATE, PRESIDENT ETC AND FUND THEIR OWN GOVT, I am sure the traditional scottish thrift will decide its too bloody expensive that is without joining the EU that is if they let them . They will have to make their own money .
Go for it save THE ENGLISH WELSH AND N IRISH TAXPAYERS BILLIONS `
No worries. The Scots will keep the almost 60 billion quid or 8% of the UK's GDP that they contribute and Westminster can haud oan tae the 37 billlion quid it annually doles out to Scotland.

Deal?

PS: Sorry about your Cornflakes.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by tamada » December 21, 2019, 1:18 am

Drunk Monkey wrote:
December 20, 2019, 6:48 pm
saint wrote:
December 20, 2019, 3:56 pm
This may rock the boat , but im all for Scottish independence ! Providing it is full independence .
They cut themselves off from the rest of Britain totally , financially .
They have their own health service , their own education system , their own defence , their own currency , make their own laws , their own passports , ect , ect . But above all they pay for all of it themselves .
It would save the British tax payers billions every year .
However if its just a case of cherry picking , which i fear old no lips sturgeon is after , then NO .
To become a completely independent country is im affraid nothing but a pipe dream , that will never happen .
If it did , Scotland the brave would be Scotland the skint in less than a few years , unless they can get the E U to prop them up as Britain has for centuries . Which i doubt very much , as the E U have pretty much indicated in the past they dont even want them in the club . So good luck with that pipe dream .
Yes cant argue with that saint but it aint gonna happen ..our string vest weari g brothers cohersed Sturgeon will.want their cake n eat it at the expense of us hard working British taxpayers .. and still.the Rab Cs will.tax us onn haggis kilts sporans wiskey porridge oats ...n watching SPL.footy 555 last one is a joke Tam.

If your idea does come to fruition Saint how lo g before cranky is strung up n the Jockenese want to come back.n play ?? Not long im.guessing .

Dm .. Mcmonkey
Scotland... home of some of the greatest English footy managers ever.

Pity that the Iron bought themselves a (quite well known) dud tho'

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by saint » December 21, 2019, 3:59 am

tamada wrote:
December 20, 2019, 4:22 pm
saint wrote:
December 20, 2019, 3:56 pm
This may rock the boat , but im all for Scottish independence ! Providing it is full independence .
They cut themselves off from the rest of Britain totally , financially .
They have their own health service , their own education system , their own defence , their own currency , make their own laws , their own passports , ect , ect . But above all they pay for all of it themselves .
It would save the British tax payers billions every year .
However if its just a case of cherry picking , which i fear old no lips sturgeon is after , then NO .
To become a completely independent country is im affraid nothing but a pipe dream , that will never happen .
If it did , Scotland the brave would be Scotland the skint in less than a few years , unless they can get the E U to prop them up as Britain has for centuries . Which i doubt very much , as the E U have pretty much indicated in the past they dont even want them in the club . So good luck with that pipe dream .
I don't think that 'old no lips sturgeon' is after anything less than what you desire. Total independence and not just some degree of further devolution.

Soooo saint, which Scottish personage in particular pissed in your Cornflakes?
Dont do cornflakes Tam , but my porridge has been tasting a bit salty lately ! :-k
Ive nothing against Scotland or its people . Whilst i accept the English have treated the Scots poorly in the past , the past is just that , the past .
Im just sick and tired of hearing all this rubbish about independence .
No lips gets on the bandwagon yet again because she won a few seats of labour and the tories in what was basically a Brexit election , and assumes its all about a free Scotland . It wasnt .
This desire to be independent is im afraid all in her egotistical ginger bonce .
Any sane person realises that the United Kingdom is and will be stronger together , outside of the corrupt E U .
But if Scotland or should i say no lips thinks otherwise then let them have their referendum once again , but this time make it final and binding . So we dont have to listen to any more of this rubbish .
And Alex oil is so yesturday .

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by AlexO » December 21, 2019, 7:51 am

saint wrote:
December 21, 2019, 3:59 am
Dont do cornflakes Tam , but my porridge has been tasting a bit salty lately ! :-k
Ive nothing against Scotland or its people . Whilst i accept the English have treated the Scots poorly in the past , the past is just that , the past .
Im just sick and tired of hearing all this rubbish about independence .
No lips gets on the bandwagon yet again because she won a few seats of labour and the tories in what was basically a Brexit election , and assumes its all about a free Scotland . It wasnt .
This desire to be independent is im afraid all in her egotistical ginger bonce .
Any sane person realises that the United Kingdom is and will be stronger together , outside of the corrupt E U .
But if Scotland or should i say no lips thinks otherwise then let them have their referendum once again , but this time make it final and binding . So we dont have to listen to any more of this rubbish .
And Alex oil is so yesturday .
Don't disagree with anything you say Saint, but the constant harping on about how Engurland is subsidising Scotland must come into the same category as "So we dont have to listen to any more of this rubbish" I truly believe a united UK is the only way forward. I have no time for the Great Shepherdess or any of her PC underlings (Jumped up toon cooncillers as far as I am concerned) For me give the idiot SNP their second referendum in what has now become a Scots National embarrassment and perhaps this time they will accept that the will of the people is what really counts.

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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by Galee » December 21, 2019, 9:23 am


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Re: The all new "Scottish Independence Referendum" thread

Post by stattointhailand » December 21, 2019, 1:27 pm

Travel Industry will take a hit ....... who in their right minds would go if you had to get passports/visas to get rained (sorry "scotch misted") on =;

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