No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Jello
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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by Jello » May 9, 2020, 8:05 pm

Q1. Which political party took Social Security from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A1: There has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government. The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."
https://www.ssa.gov/history/InternetMyths2.html


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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by glalt » May 9, 2020, 8:29 pm

From the Motley Fool;

"Where is this money? That's the big point of contention. By law, these net cash surpluses are required to be invested in special-issue government bonds and, to a lesser extent, certificates of indebtedness. In return, the federal government gets access to $2.9 trillion in borrowing capacity that it can use for normal line items in its budget. In other words, Social Security's Trust has $2.9 trillion in asset reserves, but not a red cent of cash in the vault, so to speak."

Is there a difference between this and gutted?

Check this link for a better explanation;
https://www.quora.com/Did-the-federal-g ... l-security

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by Jello » May 9, 2020, 9:32 pm

Very good explanation in your above link glait.

Also, here’s a link to the full Motley Fool article if anyone’s interested: https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02 ... -secu.aspx
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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by pf-flyer » May 10, 2020, 8:37 am

[quote="Udon Map" post_id=577096 time=1588996807 user_id=31673]
[quote=glalt post_id=577074 time=1588991877 user_id=3312]You obviously have no idea how Social Security works.[/quote]
The reason that the system is going bankrupt is that baby boomers are retiring, thus swelling the number of people collecting. At the same time, birth rates have gone down substantially over the years, so there are fewer people working and contributing to the system.
[/quote]
There is more than one reason. There are individuals people collecting that have never paid into the system and thus the system conitnues to go into the negative. An expample are people that have never paid into the system and are collectiing SS that are on disability. Dependant children of widoers that have children under the age of 18. Children of individuals that are retired and they are collecting and they are additionaly colecting for each of there children that are uner the age of 18. ( I personaly know several of them ) When you have more individuals collecting than there are paying into the system of course the system can not maintian the status quo.
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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by glalt » May 10, 2020, 9:39 am

Some disability claims are totally bogus. I personally know one guy from a VERY wealthy family. He worked for a short time in a factory and alleged that he hurt his back. His father had a lot of heavy duty connections including lawyers, judges and the police. He was turned into the government by concerned citizens. The government sent two agents to watch him. They were doing their jobs when the sheriff forced them to leave HIS county. This guy who supposedly suffered from a back injury was a body builder. His hobby was cutting and selling firewood from one of his fathers wood lots while collecting total disability benefits. This fraud continued for many years. It's hard telling how common these claims are and what it is costing the taxpayers.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by Udon Map » May 10, 2020, 11:28 am

glalt wrote:
May 9, 2020, 7:47 pm
You DO have a Social Security account. ... When you are retired, no more money goes into your account and nothing comes out.
No money ever went into your account. Your money was used to pay benefits to people currently collecting.
The money you pay in taxes isn’t held in a personal account for you to use when you get benefits. We use your taxes to pay people who are getting benefits right now.



glalt wrote:
May 9, 2020, 7:47 pm
The Social Security Trust Fund was gutted and is now full of IOU's. What happens if the government cannot pay the retired people? The money actually existed before the politicians got their hands on it and swapped IOU's for the cash.
Those IOUs are Treasury securities which earn interest for the Trust Fund (that you claimed (and perhaps still do?) doesn't exist). The interest earned on those IOUs totaled $80.8 billion in 2019. The interest goes into the [allegedly non-existent] Trust Fund. :roll:

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by Udon Map » May 10, 2020, 11:54 am

glalt wrote:
May 9, 2020, 8:29 pm
Is there a difference between this and gutted?
Yes, of course. When an account is "gutted," it means that the money is gone. In this case, the money isn't gone; rather, it has been invested in Treasury securities, where it earns interest. The Social Security Act requires that the Social Security Trust Fund invest in these government securities. Here's what ssa.gov says about your concern:
Far from being "worthless IOUs," the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government. The government has always repaid Social Security, with interest. The special-issue securities are, therefore, just as safe as U.S. Savings Bonds or other financial instruments of the Federal government.
If you believe that the U.S. government will default on its financial obligations (Treasury securities of various types), then, yes, you may have legitimate cause to be concerned. The rest of the world believes that U.S. Treasury securities are the most secure investment that can be made.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by anefarious1 » May 10, 2020, 1:17 pm

Udon Map wrote:
May 10, 2020, 11:54 am
glalt wrote:
May 9, 2020, 8:29 pm
Is there a difference between this and gutted?
Yes, of course. When an account is "gutted," it means that the money is gone. In this case, the money isn't gone; rather, it has been invested in Treasury securities, where it earns interest. The Social Security Act requires that the Social Security Trust Fund invest in these government securities. Here's what ssa.gov says about your concern:
Far from being "worthless IOUs," the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government. The government has always repaid Social Security, with interest. The special-issue securities are, therefore, just as safe as U.S. Savings Bonds or other financial instruments of the Federal government.
If you believe that the U.S. government will default on its financial obligations (Treasury securities of various types), then, yes, you may have legitimate cause to be concerned. The rest of the world believes that U.S. Treasury securities are the most secure investment that can be made.
Certainly not worthless, but WORTH LESS ie. inflation is an essential characteristic of fiat money. And, with the way things are heading, living solely off of Social Security in SouthEast Asia will surely become a thing of the past. Default will not occur when the USG so easily prints money. So guaranteed is it that inflation will pick up that, if it doesn't, they will FORCE IT. Otherwise, the system collapses even sooner than later.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by mak » March 19, 2021, 9:39 am

As a matter of interest how many rounds of stimulus packages have been issued? Is the current one the third? I have not received one since I filed married status with the wife having an ITIN. However, I believe the current stimulus package has changed that rule.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by Kenr6583 » March 19, 2021, 10:08 am

mak wrote:
March 19, 2021, 9:39 am
As a matter of interest how many rounds of stimulus packages have been issued? Is the current one the third? I have not received one since I filed married status with the wife having an ITIN. However, I believe the current stimulus package has changed that rule.
This is the third one. The cutoff this time for a single filer is $80,000 AGI. I won't be getting anything this round.
Last edited by Kenr6583 on March 19, 2021, 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by tutone » March 19, 2021, 10:10 am

mak wrote:
March 19, 2021, 9:39 am
As a matter of interest how many rounds of stimulus packages have been issued? Is the current one the third? I have not received one since I filed married status with the wife having an ITIN. However, I believe the current stimulus package has changed that rule.
Yes, this is the third round. Like yourself, I did not receive payment the first time because I filed jointly with wife having an ITIN. The rule has changed. I received direct deposits to my U.S. bank account for the second and third payments, $600 on Jan.4 and $1400 on March 17. When you file your income tax for 2020 there is a section to claim the first payment if you were initially denied, in my case for $1200.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by Giggle » March 19, 2021, 10:14 am

Kenr6583 wrote:
March 19, 2021, 10:08 am
I'm ignorant
Truer words have never been spoken. You don't have google, Ken?

"ITIN -- An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN)."
Ashli Babbitt -- SAY HER NAME!

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by anefarious1 » March 19, 2021, 12:46 pm

This 3rd round is what convinced me to get US citizenship for my 3 year old and 1 year old. $1,400 for each kid! We'll take it. Probably heading to Chiang Mai in May to get it done. Without this benefit I'd probably hold off for many years. But heck might as well be claiming them as dependents anyway.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by semperfiguy » March 19, 2021, 4:11 pm

tutone wrote:
March 19, 2021, 10:10 am
mak wrote:
March 19, 2021, 9:39 am
As a matter of interest how many rounds of stimulus packages have been issued? Is the current one the third? I have not received one since I filed married status with the wife having an ITIN. However, I believe the current stimulus package has changed that rule.
Yes, this is the third round. Like yourself, I did not receive payment the first time because I filed jointly with wife having an ITIN. The rule has changed. I received direct deposits to my U.S. bank account for the second and third payments, $600 on Jan.4 and $1400 on March 17. When you file your income tax for 2020 there is a section to claim the first payment if you were initially denied, in my case for $1200.
Tutone, please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm in the same boat as you, and it is my understanding that if we didn't qualify for the first stimulus, then we CAN'T try to claim it back via a tax credit on our 2020 tax return. I also understood that for this third stimulus they would be giving the $1400 to our wives as well even though we filed jointly with them using only an ITIN and not an SS number. Not positive on this one, but some reports indicated the dependent wives would get it. The fact that yours didn't on this last go around is probably indicative that I am wrong on that point. What say you?
Colossians 2:8-10...See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For in HIM dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily; and you are complete in HIM, who is the head of all principality and power.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by anefarious1 » March 19, 2021, 5:38 pm

semperfiguy wrote:
March 19, 2021, 4:11 pm
tutone wrote:
March 19, 2021, 10:10 am
mak wrote:
March 19, 2021, 9:39 am
As a matter of interest how many rounds of stimulus packages have been issued? Is the current one the third? I have not received one since I filed married status with the wife having an ITIN. However, I believe the current stimulus package has changed that rule.
Yes, this is the third round. Like yourself, I did not receive payment the first time because I filed jointly with wife having an ITIN. The rule has changed. I received direct deposits to my U.S. bank account for the second and third payments, $600 on Jan.4 and $1400 on March 17. When you file your income tax for 2020 there is a section to claim the first payment if you were initially denied, in my case for $1200.
Tutone, please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm in the same boat as you, and it is my understanding that if we didn't qualify for the first stimulus, then we CAN'T try to claim it back via a tax credit on our 2020 tax return. I also understood that for this third stimulus they would be giving the $1400 to our wives as well even though we filed jointly with them using only an ITIN and not an SS number. Not positive on this one, but some reports indicated the dependent wives would get it. The fact that yours didn't on this last go around is probably indicative that I am wrong on that point. What say you?
1. wrong understanding. You can still get it.
2. wrong again. anyone with ITIN doesn't qualify

But Tutone please set everyone straight

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by tutone » March 19, 2021, 7:34 pm

semperfiguy wrote:
March 19, 2021, 4:11 pm
tutone wrote:
March 19, 2021, 10:10 am
mak wrote:
March 19, 2021, 9:39 am
As a matter of interest how many rounds of stimulus packages have been issued? Is the current one the third? I have not received one since I filed married status with the wife having an ITIN. However, I believe the current stimulus package has changed that rule.
Yes, this is the third round. Like yourself, I did not receive payment the first time because I filed jointly with wife having an ITIN. The rule has changed. I received direct deposits to my U.S. bank account for the second and third payments, $600 on Jan.4 and $1400 on March 17. When you file your income tax for 2020 there is a section to claim the first payment if you were initially denied, in my case for $1200.
Tutone, please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm in the same boat as you, and it is my understanding that if we didn't qualify for the first stimulus, then we CAN'T try to claim it back via a tax credit on our 2020 tax return. I also understood that for this third stimulus they would be giving the $1400 to our wives as well even though we filed jointly with them using only an ITIN and not an SS number. Not positive on this one, but some reports indicated the dependent wives would get it. The fact that yours didn't on this last go around is probably indicative that I am wrong on that point. What say you?
Read this. Should answer all your questions. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/recovery-r ... -questions

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by tutone » March 19, 2021, 7:45 pm

anefarious1 wrote:
March 19, 2021, 5:38 pm
semperfiguy wrote:
March 19, 2021, 4:11 pm
tutone wrote:
March 19, 2021, 10:10 am
mak wrote:
March 19, 2021, 9:39 am
As a matter of interest how many rounds of stimulus packages have been issued? Is the current one the third? I have not received one since I filed married status with the wife having an ITIN. However, I believe the current stimulus package has changed that rule.
Yes, this is the third round. Like yourself, I did not receive payment the first time because I filed jointly with wife having an ITIN. The rule has changed. I received direct deposits to my U.S. bank account for the second and third payments, $600 on Jan.4 and $1400 on March 17. When you file your income tax for 2020 there is a section to claim the first payment if you were initially denied, in my case for $1200.
Tutone, please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm in the same boat as you, and it is my understanding that if we didn't qualify for the first stimulus, then we CAN'T try to claim it back via a tax credit on our 2020 tax return. I also understood that for this third stimulus they would be giving the $1400 to our wives as well even though we filed jointly with them using only an ITIN and not an SS number. Not positive on this one, but some reports indicated the dependent wives would get it. The fact that yours didn't on this last go around is probably indicative that I am wrong on that point. What say you?
1. wrong understanding. You can still get it.
2. wrong again. anyone with ITIN doesn't qualify

But Tutone please set everyone straight
Just relating my own experience. Not interested in setting anyone straight. They can determine their own path.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by semperfiguy » March 21, 2021, 3:42 pm

semperfiguy wrote:
March 19, 2021, 4:11 pm
tutone wrote:
March 19, 2021, 10:10 am
mak wrote:
March 19, 2021, 9:39 am
As a matter of interest how many rounds of stimulus packages have been issued? Is the current one the third? I have not received one since I filed married status with the wife having an ITIN. However, I believe the current stimulus package has changed that rule.
Yes, this is the third round. Like yourself, I did not receive payment the first time because I filed jointly with wife having an ITIN. The rule has changed. I received direct deposits to my U.S. bank account for the second and third payments, $600 on Jan.4 and $1400 on March 17. When you file your income tax for 2020 there is a section to claim the first payment if you were initially denied, in my case for $1200.
Tutone, please correct me if I am wrong, but I'm in the same boat as you, and it is my understanding that if we didn't qualify for the first stimulus, then we CAN'T try to claim it back via a tax credit on our 2020 tax return. I also understood that for this third stimulus they would be giving the $1400 to our wives as well even though we filed jointly with them using only an ITIN and not an SS number. Not positive on this one, but some reports indicated the dependent wives would get it. The fact that yours didn't on this last go around is probably indicative that I am wrong on that point. What say you?

Thanks Tutone and Anefarious1! Tomorrow I will mail my amended 2020 tax return and claim the Recovery Rebate Credit for the first stimulus. Really appreciate the heads up on the qualification changes in recent weeks which now allow me to claim the benefit.
Colossians 2:8-10...See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For in HIM dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily; and you are complete in HIM, who is the head of all principality and power.

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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by Whistler » March 21, 2021, 5:03 pm

Interesting. Stimulus payments are supposed to help those impacted by COVID, but also to inject money into the economy by boosting retail sales. It was a feature of the Australian response to the GFC that was well regarded by economists, lower income Australians got some pretty decent payments and rushed out and bought a lot of Chinese made TV's. Hmmm.

Australia passed out COVID stimulus payments last year to individuals on the pension. Those payments only went to Australian residents on the basis that the money would be spent in Australia to boost spending.

The money paid to US citizens residing in Thailand will not pump one dollar into the US economy.

Good luck you guys for getting the payment, but I am not convinced it was as wisely thought out as the Aussie approach.
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Re: No Stimulus check for some US Citizens Abroad

Post by Whistler » March 21, 2021, 7:02 pm

In response to a giggle post that has been deleted where he suggested I was buffoon.

he ha Giggle, a buffoon that tied you up in knots like a thanksgiving turkey, about SSN. Why not change your name to Buffalo head, or bird brain?

Trussed Turkeys go gobble, gobble gobble not giggle, giggle, giggle
I had a bumper sticker in Texas that read 'Beam me up Scotty'. I often wish I could find one in Udon Thani

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