Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

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Udon Map
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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Udon Map » December 1, 2023, 7:54 pm

Doodoo wrote:
December 1, 2023, 2:56 pm
What has this to do with the subject matter, war hostages, killing, bombs etc?
It started with the video (one of many available online) of Gazan children in military fatigues being taught to hate and kill Israelis and Jews, consistent with the Hamas charter. Hamas, being the government in Gaza (at least for now and since 2007), currently determines what is taught in schools.



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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by jackspratt » December 2, 2023, 4:13 pm

And people wonder why the Palestinians object.
The daily, grinding violence in the West Bank is worse than ever before. Why does it go unseen?

.....In the seven weeks from 7 October, Israeli forces and settlers killed 221 Palestinians in the West Bank, according to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs – more than the entirety of 2022. They include eight-year-old Adam al-Ghoul and Basel Abu al-Wafa, 15, from Jenin refugee camp. Another 2,955 people have been injured.....

.......Israel is even litigating our emotions inside our homes, banning celebrations for the freed prisoners and raiding their houses ahead of their arrival, forcing visitors out, throwing out candy and threatening 70,000 shekels (£14,800) fines if families were found to celebrate their loved ones’ freedom.......

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nce-israel
This is the guy who gave the orders to ban prisoner release celebrations https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ ... ebrations/ , a convicted terrorist supporter, and now in charge of the Israeli police:
Ben-Gvir, a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has faced charges of hate speech against Arabs and was known to have a portrait in his living room of Israeli-American terrorist Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in Hebron, in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. He removed the portrait after he entered politics. He was also previously convicted of supporting a terrorist group known as Kach, which espoused Kahanism, an extremist religious Zionist ideology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Whistler » December 2, 2023, 9:03 pm

jackspratt wrote:
December 2, 2023, 4:13 pm
And people wonder why the Palestinians object.
The daily, grinding violence in the West Bank is worse than ever before. Why does it go unseen?

.....In the seven weeks from 7 October, Israeli forces and settlers killed 221 Palestinians in the West Bank, according to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs – more than the entirety of 2022. They include eight-year-old Adam al-Ghoul and Basel Abu al-Wafa, 15, from Jenin refugee camp. Another 2,955 people have been injured.....

.......Israel is even litigating our emotions inside our homes, banning celebrations for the freed prisoners and raiding their houses ahead of their arrival, forcing visitors out, throwing out candy and threatening 70,000 shekels (£14,800) fines if families were found to celebrate their loved ones’ freedom.......

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nce-israel
This is the guy who gave the orders to ban prisoner release celebrations https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ ... ebrations/ , a convicted terrorist supporter, and now in charge of the Israeli police:
Ben-Gvir, a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has faced charges of hate speech against Arabs and was known to have a portrait in his living room of Israeli-American terrorist Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in Hebron, in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. He removed the portrait after he entered politics. He was also previously convicted of supporting a terrorist group known as Kach, which espoused Kahanism, an extremist religious Zionist ideology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_Ben-Gvir
JS, a thoroughly evil man, without doubt with other Israelis equally evil, no doubt there other equally evil Arabs. As Arabs outnumber Jews, probably more evil. Arabs than Jews, but who is counting?
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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by FrazeeDK » December 3, 2023, 3:58 pm

221 Palestinians killed in the West Bank.. No breakdown on how many were combatants.

Kinda like the news media trumpeting last week "150 Palestinians released in hostage swap including children". No listing of ages and what crimes they were in prison for. Another story trumped how a female "Palestinian disfigured activist" was released but didn't quite expalin the disfigurement was from her driving a car bomb and lighting it off while she was in the car. She's still alive so I reckon the Israelis gave her appropriate hospital care.. One of the other "children" released was age 15 when he stabbed an elderly Israeli on the street.. Now, four years later at 19 he's still a "child??" The media in this mess has tried to play the moral equivalence card. XXXX Children dead according to "Palestinian Health Ministry" although gotta admit some have gotten more honest and now say "Hamas controlled Health MInistry.." Again with the "children" without an age breakedown.. You can bet there are 15-18 year olds fighting with Hamas..
Dave

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by papafarang » December 3, 2023, 8:00 pm

Udon Map wrote:
November 30, 2023, 7:16 pm
papafarang wrote:
November 30, 2023, 12:32 pm
Something wrong with you lot so eager to reinforce your own bigoted view you don't even see it for what it is. Little kids playing war games, it's only adults making something out of nothing, I played cowboys and Indians .imagine if they had filmed me a a kid putting a rope round my mate neck just because he was a redskin. Show that vid and the narrative would be 'homicidal racist manic'. Or try another narrative. Look at these poor children doing Thier daily ' get to school without being murdered training, like America has active shooter training in schools. Whatever it's just propaganda
Little kids playing is one thing, and I agree with you in that, Dean. But being taught to hate by teachers in school, being taught violence by teachers in school is something completely different.

Here's an article from UN Watch: https://unwatch.org/un-teachers-call-to ... ew-report/
When I was an infant I knew nothing about hate. Nor do those children. The titillation some right wing members enjoy thinking about children being mutilated ,murdered lor just vaporised ls disgusting . Go on defend child murder again. Next
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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Udon Map » December 3, 2023, 9:02 pm

papafarang wrote:
December 3, 2023, 8:00 pm
Udon Map wrote:
November 30, 2023, 7:16 pm
papafarang wrote:
November 30, 2023, 12:32 pm
Something wrong with you lot so eager to reinforce your own bigoted view you don't even see it for what it is. Little kids playing war games, it's only adults making something out of nothing, I played cowboys and Indians .imagine if they had filmed me a a kid putting a rope round my mate neck just because he was a redskin. Show that vid and the narrative would be 'homicidal racist manic'. Or try another narrative. Look at these poor children doing Thier daily ' get to school without being murdered training, like America has active shooter training in schools. Whatever it's just propaganda
Little kids playing is one thing, and I agree with you in that, Dean. But being taught to hate by teachers in school, being taught violence by teachers in school is something completely different.

Here's an article from UN Watch: https://unwatch.org/un-teachers-call-to ... ew-report/
When I was an infant I knew nothing about hate. Nor do those children. The titillation some right wing members enjoy thinking about children being mutilated ,murdered lor just vaporised ls disgusting . Go on defend child murder again. Next
Not defending child murder at all. "Murder" implies an intended victim. The only entity targeting children is Hamas. True, many children have been killed in Israeli military action. But the purpose of the actions isn't to target and kill children. Contrast with Hamas which intentionally murdered and kidnapped children. Perhaps if Hamas didn't embed themselves in and under schools, fewer children would have died.

And you're right, the Gazan children start out knowing nothing about hate. Until they're taught to hate by their teachers.

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Doodoo » December 4, 2023, 7:09 am

Now if you are a Hostage or get to be one you certainly would be hoping that someone like John Bolton former national security adviser would keep his mouth shut. Your chances of survival just dropped dramatically

'I think Israel's best judgment here is simply to proceed militarily to achieve the objective it says it wants, which is the elimination of Hamas.'

https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/us- ... 5rTPugY%3D

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Udon Map » December 4, 2023, 11:00 am

Doodoo wrote:
December 4, 2023, 7:09 am
Now if you are a Hostage or get to be one you certainly would be hoping that someone like John Bolton former national security adviser would keep his mouth shut. Your chances of survival just dropped dramatically
Only if you think that Israel is taking advice from Bolton, and if you believe the reporting in The Epoch Times.

According to Wikipedia, Epoch Times (and its affiliated media outlets) is a far right extremist media group closely tied with the religious extremist group Falun Gong. Again, according to Wikipedia:
The Epoch Times has promoted an array of pro-Donald Trump conspiracy theories and is known as one of Trump's closest media allies and defenders.

The paper has financially benefited from its promotion of Trump conspiracies, increasing its revenue nearly fourfold during the first three years of Trump's administration (from $3.9 million in 2016 to $15.5 million in 2019) as it catered to Trump's most ardent supporters, to whom the paper marketed itself via targeted social media advertising.

Stefanie Albrecht, a reporter for the German broadcaster RTL who spent several days inside The Epoch Times's Berlin office while investigating the far right, said that the staffers she met were all Falun Gong practitioners who had no journalistic training and did not check facts, trusting instead in the alternative sources they consulted. During her time at The Epoch Times's office, Albrecht was exposed to debunked conspiracy theories such as Pizzagate, the chemtrail conspiracy theory, weather-changing machines and the Great Replacement.
Epoch Times has a paywall, I couldn't read the article.

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Doodoo » December 4, 2023, 11:14 am


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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by tamada » December 4, 2023, 2:17 pm

Udon Map wrote:
December 4, 2023, 11:00 am
Epoch Times has a paywall, I couldn't read the article.
You aren't missing much. It's a truly awful media stream that first popped up on my radar during Covid hibernation when we were all looking for answers. Only churned out sensationalist conspiracy theories, so I have avoided it like the plague ever since.
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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by tamada » December 4, 2023, 2:18 pm

Doodoo wrote:
December 4, 2023, 7:09 am
Now if you are a Hostage or get to be one you certainly would be hoping that someone like John Bolton former national security adviser would keep his mouth shut. Your chances of survival just dropped dramatically

'I think Israel's best judgment here is simply to proceed militarily to achieve the objective it says it wants, which is the elimination of Hamas.'

https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/us- ... 5rTPugY%3D
Bolton should keep his mouth shut, period.
'Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence'
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'You don't have to be afraid of everything you don't understand'
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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Doodoo » December 4, 2023, 3:57 pm

How does one eliminate HAMAS? Its not realistic as it will evolved again as Hamas or something else. It is an idea, a hate and until one can find a way to rid that , good luck, it wont happen

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by jackspratt » December 4, 2023, 9:03 pm

Politicians' weasel words.

Far easier to say, rather than this conflict has gone on for long enough - it's time to sit down with the moderate Palestinians and Arab states, with the aim of achieving a mutually acceptable and recognised solution, based on 2 states.

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Udon Map » December 4, 2023, 9:16 pm

jackspratt wrote:
December 4, 2023, 9:03 pm
Far easier to say, rather than this conflict has gone on for long enough - it's time to sit down with the moderate Palestinians and Arab states, with the aim of achieving a mutually acceptable and recognised solution, based on 2 states.
A reasonable approach, but two problems: 1) The Arabs have been offered a two state solution repeatedly and always refused, 2) How does one deal with Hamas, or get it under control? The problem isn't the moderate Palestinian and Arab states, it's the extremists, as always.

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Sport » December 4, 2023, 11:01 pm

jackspratt wrote:
December 4, 2023, 9:03 pm
Politicians' weasel words.
Far easier to say, rather than this conflict has gone on for long enough - it's time to sit down with the moderate Palestinians and Arab states, with the aim of achieving a mutually acceptable and recognised solution, based on 2 states.
A 2 state solution wont happen JS, most muslims wish the Jewish state be eliminated, if you cant see that better go to Specsavers for glasses. I hope it keeps going until they rid the world of hamas.

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by jackspratt » December 5, 2023, 9:00 am

Udon Map wrote:
December 4, 2023, 9:16 pm
A reasonable approach, but two problems: 1) The Arabs have been offered a two state solution repeatedly and always refused, 2) How does one deal with Hamas, or get it under control? The problem isn't the moderate Palestinian and Arab states, it's the extremists, as always.
The previous offers failed the "mutually acceptable" test, so not unexpectedly, were rejected. And given the current composition of the Israeli government (even before the Hamas slaughter), a 2 state solution seems a long way off.

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Udon Map » December 5, 2023, 9:39 am

jackspratt wrote:
December 5, 2023, 9:00 am
Udon Map wrote:
December 4, 2023, 9:16 pm
A reasonable approach, but two problems: 1) The Arabs have been offered a two state solution repeatedly and always refused, 2) How does one deal with Hamas, or get it under control? The problem isn't the moderate Palestinian and Arab states, it's the extremists, as always.
The previous offers failed the "mutually acceptable" test, so not unexpectedly, were rejected. And given the current composition of the Israeli government (even before the Hamas slaughter), a 2 state solution seems a long way off.
The trouble with the "mutually acceptable" test was that the elimination of Israel was one of the requirements, IIRC, so it wasn't really a two state solution.

But, yes, I agree with you that it's a very long way off.

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by mak » December 8, 2023, 11:46 am


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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Doodoo » December 8, 2023, 8:03 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/news/un-secretary ... 31792.html

"The UN secretary-general invoked 'Article 99' to push for a Gaza cease-fire. What exactly is it?"
Finally a man with B_LLS What the UN was developed for

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Re: Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

Post by Udon Map » December 8, 2023, 8:34 pm

So Israel should be condemned for inadvertently killing civilians, but Hamas shouldn't be condemned for intentionally targeting civilians? The U.N. (both the Security Council and the General Assembly) has repeatedly rejected resolutions condemning Hamas, its attack on Israeli civilians, and its taking civilians hostages.

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