Future energy sources?

[Whistler]

Useful information glalt. Do you know if newer systems are easier to manage

[AlexO]

Would doubt it Whistler, the only real maintenance on solar panels is cleaning them.
I would be interested to know how much performance drops of as the dust etc builds up on the panels.
Not much maintenance needed on batteries (the odd top up if unsealed lead acid) even less on lithium units.
Invertors, if not broken leave them alone.

[Doodoo]

DUST PROBLEMS

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2021/ ... 0g%2Fm%202.

[Whistler]

Installing water spray bars at the same time as mounting solar panels is perhaps an option

[AlexO]

Installing water spray bars at the same time as mounting solar panels is perhaps an option

Whistler.
Yes it will help but also adds to the installation costs.
I did a cost comparison last year (wife convinced that solar power is free) Allowing for a 5% annual price increase in conventional electricity supply costs and one change of batteries after 15 years, the pay back period after building a housing for batteries and Invertor, using A/C in the housing to extend battery life etc. and after assuming solar panels and invertor lasted, was around 28 years. Obviously, the bigger systems have better recovery cost ratio's but when you take into consideration the fact that you need a fall-back power source then it becomes even less financially attractive. Thats why I believe nuclear is the only sensible clean energy source in the vast majority of cases.

[Whistler]

Installing water spray bars at the same time as mounting solar panels is perhaps an option

Whistler.
Yes it will help but also adds to the installation costs.
I did a cost comparison last year (wife convinced that solar power is free) Allowing for a 5% annual price increase in conventional electricity supply costs and one change of batteries after 15 years, the pay back period after building a housing for batteries and Invertor, using A/C in the housing to extend battery life etc. and after assuming solar panels and invertor lasted, was around 28 years. Obviously, the bigger systems have better recovery cost ratio's but when you take into consideration the fact that you need a fall-back power source then it becomes even less financially attractive. Thats why I believe nuclear is the only sensible clean energy source in the vast majority of cases.

Interesting.

Pay back period in Australia was a fraction of your calculations

https://www.solarchoice.net.au/solar-pa ... -worth-it/

In Thailand the figure is 7 years

https://www.google.com/search?q=payback ... s-wiz-serp

Plus, and this is a big one; I have no intention of building a nucleur power plant in my yard .....55.

[tamada]

No, no, don't fret. It can be over in Alex's yard.

I like Alex's numbers that come from real, on-the-ground, DIY research. I'll take the 28 years as a realistic, individual net-zero calculation. We've read glalt's earlier, excellent real-world experiences too where he's nowhere near breaking even after several years investing for a cleaner future. All good work though.

The companies that sell and install solar kit may be quoting numbers based on the best-ever optimized, minimal fuss and easiest installation in order to tout their most attractive 'net-zero' date. I mean, why wouldn't they?

And it looks like most governments, doing their best "art of the possible" (I like that Whistler, thanks), pitch a number somewhere in between the impossibly unrealistic and the why even bother.

[AlexO]

Whistler
.Again, hear what you are saying but don't see installation costs, building costs (unless you have plenty spare rooms), replacement costs and it assumes your house is already in the correct orientation for maximum efficiency of the panels. Just reread Glaits post,
Glait if you had a reliable grid power system would you bother with your solar systems?
Have not heard of any grants from the Thai Government so the Aussie figures don't count.
If it was that cheap and recovery periods so quick, why has everyone not installed full systems by now.
On the subject of nuclear, I would say that the reactors currently installed in all of the USA's Carrier and submarine fleets are a great example of how safe nuclear reactors are nowadays and apart from the requirement for sufficient cooling water are a great example of clean, dependable power for generations to come.

[Whistler]

I will be building new house later this year, design

Decent slab, proper steel reinforcement on perimeter, waffle pod in floor area (foam battens)
Steel frame
Chilla lapped plank cladding
Internal plaster walls/ceilings with thick foam backing
Vented roof, sarking under steel roof
Wide eaves with Oz style verandah on three side
Sunscreen film on all windows

will install solar.

If I can buy a second hand nuclear plant off a scrapped US warship, I will consider, but parked well away from veggie garden, maybe next to chicken run as having a few 4 legged, glow in the dark chickens will be great.

When I finish, a BBQ where everybody gets a chicken leg and a boost for their pacemakers.

[rick]

I would like to instsll solar power, jist a grid tie system (no batteries) just to offset about 75% of the electric bill. Also preferably a system that is modular and can be installed in stages. One issue i think is lack of local installers, who van be trusted and not gouge the customer (last time i looked prices were higher than the UK).
Would be interested in any quotes Whistler gets, or anyone else.

[BillaRickaDickay]

I note from Whistles post the link to Solarchoice giving positive info on Solar power viability, is that the same company that owns Buli Creek Solar Farm in Queensland? if so no hint of bias reporting there then.
I'm a Solar Fan, however at this moment in time we find that many companies in the Energy business have jumped on the band wagon of ripping people off.
My youngest daughter, in the process of buying her council house back in the UK, god bless Margaret Thatcher, has just been asked to cough up £30,000 to release the lease on her roof solar panels.Not too much of a problen to her as she is getting a hefty discount on the house purchase.
Setting up your own system, if you got the dough, gotta be the way to go, selling it to the grid I think open to dodgey dealing.

[tamada]

The home solar power system is the "must have" for the future: something that's expensive, and even if built properly, is a bit finicky to manage, expensive to maintain and ultimately doesn't get used much. Just like when I first got here and everyone's retirement build included the "must have" swimming pool: something that's expensive, and even if built properly, is a bit finicky to manage, expensive to maintain and ultimately doesn't get used much.

My neighbour's filling in their underutilized swimming pool so they have a nice shady spot to park their two EV's.

[Whistler]

I would like to instsll solar power, jist a grid tie system (no batteries) just to offset about 75% of the electric bill. Also preferably a system that is modular and can be installed in stages. One issue i think is lack of local installers, who van be trusted and not gouge the customer (last time i looked prices were higher than the UK).
Would be interested in any quotes Whistler gets, or anyone else.

Totally agree Rick, gouging a big issue but I suspect the local PEA is a bigger problem, they resist systems with inverters and don't like solar much anyhow. TiT, I will have to navigate carefully

[FrazeeDK]

this company is in Udon.. https://solarwing.co/

a simple web layout with good explnatory graphics..

[glalt]

Whistler
.Again, hear what you are saying but don't see installation costs, building costs (unless you have plenty spare rooms), replacement costs and it assumes your house is already in the correct orientation for maximum efficiency of the panels. Just reread Glaits post,
Glait if you had a reliable grid power system would you bother with your solar systems?
Have not heard of any grants from the Thai Government so the Aussie figures don't count.
If it was that cheap and recovery periods so quick, why has everyone not installed full systems by now.
On the subject of nuclear, I would say that the reactors currently installed in all of the USA's Carrier and submarine fleets are a great example of how safe nuclear reactors are nowadays and apart from the requirement for sufficient cooling water are a great example of clean, dependable power for generations to come.

If the electric grid were reliable, I would scrap my solar systems when the batteries need replaced. The components are great and trouble free but the battery costs have been more than the savings. The system that runs my computer needs new batteries again right now. The Globatt batteries are the worst set that I have ever used. I used two 200 AH batteries of the best that Globatt makes. My main system is using a brand called Newmax and they are still usable. The first couple battery sets were flooded batteries. They seemed to drink water and that was irritating to keep topping them up, so only sealed batteries since. The flooded batteries life was no better than sealed batteries, just a little cheaper.

To answer the panel maintenance question, the dust here quickly covers the panels. Actually, the loss of power isn't as bad as one would think, maybe 25 percent. Kind of surprising how much dust accumulates, spraying tap water to wash off the dust leaves water spots that never seem to come off. During the rainy season the dust is no problem at all.

My latest news is that I have bitten the bullet and have on order a single 200 AH Lithium-Ion battery that cost more than 500 dollars. Of course, my existing charge controller is not compatible, so it also needs replaced. Since the new Lithium-Ion battery can be discharged way deeper than lead acid batteries I am hoping that the single 200 AH will do the job. Time will tell.

[glalt]

I would like to instsll solar power, jist a grid tie system (no batteries) just to offset about 75% of the electric bill. Also preferably a system that is modular and can be installed in stages. One issue i think is lack of local installers, who van be trusted and not gouge the customer (last time i looked prices were higher than the UK).
Would be interested in any quotes Whistler gets, or anyone else.

I knew a guy who put in a lot of solar panels all feeding the grid with no batteries. It worked well and ran his electric meter backwards. Everything was fine until the electric company saw his meter running backwards. He had neglected to get the proper permissions from the government. His components did not meet government requirements. Everything the government required was way overpriced.

It ended up that he had to pay the historical cost of what electric he had used in the past. His meter was replaced with one that didn't allow any feed from his panels. The bottom line is that getting the proper permissions was nearly impossible. He refused to buy the batteries and the components to make an off-grid system. He never did get approved, and he now no longer lives here in Thailand. I don't know what he did with all those solar panels or the grid tie inverters. I don't remember his name. He used to post on this forum. Some of the old timers here would likely remember him.

[Whistler]

Another interesting development. Alex will love this one.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/world-larges ... 00048.html

[glalt]

I will be building new house later this year, design

Decent slab, proper steel reinforcement on perimeter, waffle pod in floor area (foam battens)
Steel frame
Chilla lapped plank cladding
Internal plaster walls/ceilings with thick foam backing
Vented roof, sarking under steel roof
Wide eaves with Oz style verandah on three side
Sunscreen film on all windows

will install solar.

If I can buy a second hand nuclear plant off a scrapped US warship, I will consider, but parked well away from veggie garden, maybe next to chicken run as having a few 4 legged, glow in the dark chickens will be great.

When I finish, a BBQ where everybody gets a chicken leg and a boost for their pacemakers.

Solar systems are NOT dead. Deep cycle lead acid batteries are dead. I recently bit the bullet and bought a lithium battery. It is a 200 AH and it replaced two 200 Ah deep cycle lead acid batteries. I was hoping that it would power my system because it can be discharged much deeper than the lead acid. I connected the new battery yesterday. It was not fully charged. I discovered that it charged much faster from the solar panels but was still not fully charged. I was amazed and still am about how long the battery is lasting even with just the partial charge. Today there is no sun, just cloudy. It still has about a half of a charge and it is still powering my system. The battery cost double what the lead acid deep cycle batteries cost but this one battery replaced two of the lead acid batteries. Still expensive but now about the same cost and will likely last much longer.

If you still plan on installing a solar system, I strongly recommend that you go with the more expensive lithium batteries. I seriously considered scrapping my larger system when the existing batteries die but now have reconsidered. I will more than likely replace the lead acid deep cycle batteries with lithium when the existing batteries die. It's a live and learn situation.The price of lithium batteries have dropped while the lead acid deep cycle batteries prices have gone up.

[Whistler]

Thanks heaps Glalt, very valuable information

[rick]

Thanks also Galt. I have just previously been running one small solar panel and a single small lead acid battery, in case of blackouts/occasional farm work, to run one fan and a couple of lights. Had 2 batteries, Globat crap from Amorn, neither lasted much more than a year. I will never buy Lead acid again. These days on the farm, i just connect the fan direct to the solar panel, works fine (as long as sunny).

Have only had short blackouts for the last 8 years, so do not need any backup system, as so rarely needed.