How Many Farang?

Post by **joepai** » December 8, 2012, 2:11 pm

The simple answer is nobody knows, whatever number is given it is only a guess

Post by **udonmum** » December 8, 2012, 2:27 pm

I asked in immigration because after a few visits the officer who dealt with us actually became quite friendly. I was curious as I am a western woman married to a Thai guy. She said 5000 in Udon of which 100 are women, of which 5 of those are women on longer term stays. I'm not much of an expert on the different types of visas but the women I know of here seem to be either teachers or missionaries so that must make up a chunk of the 100. I asked about farang (not foreign) as was asking in Thai. From the Thais I know, farang seems to definitely refer to skin colour eg white/western/caucasian - i don't know if they would see an Australian as different and I don't think they'd call a British Indian or Chinese person farang, because they don't look it.

Post by **pienmash** » December 8, 2012, 2:34 pm

udonmum wrote:I asked in immigration because after a few visits the officer who dealt with us actually became quite friendly. I was curious as I am a western woman married to a Thai guy. She said 5000 in Udon of which 100 are women, of which 5 of those are women on longer term stays. I'm not much of an expert on the different types of visas but the women I know of here seem to be either teachers or missionaries so that must make up a chunk of the 100. I asked about farang (not foreign) as was asking in Thai. From the Thais I know, farang seems to definitely refer to skin colour eg white/western/caucasian - i don't know if they would see an Australian as different and I don't think they'd call a British Indian or Chinese person farang, because they don't look it.

You bring up a good point udonmum .... i have always been of the impression that farang as a term meant westerner ie European , American , Ozzie , NZ etcetc ,,, do Thais refer to Middle Eastern / Arabs , Indians , Japs / Taiwanese (Asian) etc as farang or do they have another equally appropriate tag for them as well ... mash is far too polite to ask

Post by **grievous** » December 8, 2012, 5:40 pm

This is how my wife and friends describe various non asian races.
White skinned (caucasian)- farang
Indian & arab looking- Muslim (khag)
African
I'm not sure how the thai government categorises immigrants though.

Post by **Harpo** » December 12, 2012, 6:33 am

by coxo » December 6, 2012, 7:13 pm

rct wrote:
Farang denotes westerners, however if one includes foreigners of Asian descent, the numbers in Thailand will be much bigger, even if not so many in Udon.

I always was under the impression 'farang' meant Western European, as an Aussie I am not a farang.

Hey Coxo....I'm from the Land of Oz too......however I'm not Australian, or Farang, coxo I'm Alien.....noticed this sign on the wall of Immigrtation Office in Sakon Nakhon, reads.......In Thailand the ALIEN must comply with Thai Law......cheers Harpo

Post by **Jase** » March 21, 2013, 9:54 pm

I read somewhere that there were circa 20,000 foreigners living in Udon province.

Post by **parrot** » March 21, 2013, 10:04 pm

Foreigners being Laotian, Cambodian, Vietnamese, UK, US, AU, etc........20,000 is believeable.

Post by **Astana** » March 21, 2013, 10:49 pm

udonmum wrote:I asked in immigration because after a few visits the officer who dealt with us actually became quite friendly. I was curious as I am a western woman married to a Thai guy. She said 5000 in Udon of which 100 are women, of which 5 of those are women on longer term stays. I'm not much of an expert on the different types of visas but the women I know of here seem to be either teachers or missionaries so that must make up a chunk of the 100. I asked about farang (not foreign) as was asking in Thai. From the Thais I know, farang seems to definitely refer to skin colour eg white/western/caucasian - i don't know if they would see an Australian as different and I don't think they'd call a British Indian or Chinese person farang, because they don't look it.

It is interesting that those women married to a Thai citizen have the right to it and can gain citizenship and a passport almost immediately under their husbands sponsorship.

Post by **GT93** » March 23, 2013, 8:19 am

I moved to Udon in 2003. Back then, if you didn't go to the western stores such as Tesco, it was quite possible to go for a month or more without seeing a Caucasian woman. Then if one was spotted, she wouldn't have a hope of being a Coyote dancer (I'm being polite). On my last visit to Udon it seems as if it would now be very difficult not to see a farang woman for a month if living in Udonthani city.

Post by **rick** » March 23, 2013, 9:45 am

With all the different visa types it is difficult for any exact figure to be arrived at. I assume the 5,000 figure is for those on retirement and marriage extensions. I doubt if immigration has to hand how many are hear on 90 day and 60 day visas, as they are issued elsewhere and may not have provided a local address. Some people probably don't come up on any visa count .. :-"

Post by **KHONDAHM** » March 23, 2013, 6:45 pm

To put the issue of "farang" to bed:

It has a proper meaning and a common meaning. The proper meaning would be any non-Thai. The common meaning is any caucasian person. It does NOT mean Westerner in the sense they are American or European. I am absolutely NOT a farang despite the fact my American roots go back to the 1700's. Black people are politely referred to as "Nikoe" (yeah, it's hella close to that other word) as the proper Thai word. However, the common word is Khondahm (hence my moniker) which means "Black people/person/guy". The American lexicon equivalent of "farang" would be "white guy/person". The Spanish equivalent would be "gringo", and so on. It's a very generic and general term not meant or intended to be offensive (although like all words, HOW it is said in a given situation could have various connotations).

"Khak/kek" etc. is generally a derogatory term used when referring to someone of Arabic or Indian decent.

A Caucasian from Australia is a farang. Thais do not make a distinction.

Thais are pre-disposed to assume any Black person is African by default. A Caucasian African is all but incomprehensible to the average Thai. A Black American has only recently been gaining acceptance - many Thais believing me to be a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant, for example, rather than me being "more American" (if you willl indulge me) than Caucasian arriving now or less than a couple of generations ago.

Such ignorance is mostly the fault of the poor education system and most Thais are completely oblivious to the idea that some things they say could be misinterpreted, so always allow for additional tolerance and understanding. They typically mean no harm or disrespect.

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » March 23, 2013, 9:38 pm

Excellent. That is a 'pure gold' analysis.

Post by **Khun Paul** » March 24, 2013, 7:43 am

Kh thanks for the explanation, a few years ago i was asked to speak at a joint Thai . FGoreign meeting and the speech was actually about the Way Thais treat foreigners, as a result i had to find out how many foreignes were living in Udon province, as has been said the answer is not a definitive one, as many border hop so they slide under the Immigration network of statistics, but the figure some 3-4 years ago was about 9 odd thousand, I am sure sine the slibde into infamy of pattaya and Phuket the figure has risen considerably, so a guestimate would be about 13-15 thousand . This figure would not include vistiors ( ie tourists passing through, 2-3 week hollday ). There are surely more aroubnd thats fro sure and some even speak when you say hello, others just stick their noeses in the air and pretend you do not exist.

Post by **parrot** » March 24, 2013, 9:13 am

kp, just curious.....did the 9 odd thousand number break down by country? It'd seem to me the only credible answer (to how many farang?) could come from immigration authorities. Marriage extensions + retirement extensions = the total number of legit expats living here (or am I missing something?). Then you wag in a variable for people who bypass the system.
The question "How many farang?" has been asked as long as I've been here......but I'd never bet a dime on any of the answers that I've seen in print, thus far, as most seem to be a variety of "I heard it through the grapevine." Seems the figures are Top Secret Noforn.......for some strange reason.

Post by **jackspratt** » March 24, 2013, 9:46 am

Parrot you would also need to add in people here on initial visas (ie pre-extension), and those working fly-in/fly-out who whilst living here, may only be on 30 day entry stamps.

Post by **Galee** » March 24, 2013, 10:32 am

Plus the over stayers who's visa has expired. In some cases, years ago.

At a rough guess I would say double the official figure?

Post by **harmonyudon** » March 24, 2013, 10:44 am

Galee wrote:Plus the over stayers who's visa has expired. In some cases, years ago.

....And are stucked in Udon or TH. I think Galee's guess is a reasonable estimation, but double is perhaps too high.

There are also those who actually live in Udon and who owns a house outside the province and have a yellow book there or find it more pleasant to go to another IO, for example Sakhon Nakhon.

Post by **merchant seaman** » March 24, 2013, 11:11 am

Bottom line is no one can give an accurate count of how many Farangs or foreigners live in Udon.

Post by **harmonyudon** » March 24, 2013, 11:40 am

merchant seaman wrote:Bottom line is no one can give an accurate count of how many Farangs or foreigners live in Udon.

If you follow Parrot's requirements the IO-Udon must have the statistics. Why they not publish it, is a good question or food for thought.

Post by **Khun Paul** » March 25, 2013, 9:45 am

In rea;ity one does not not by nationality as a foreigner is limited to area specifics, like asia, europe or even north america, i do not think even with all the latest software the IO has they know the accurate answers. there are so many variables and as I said , my figure did not reflect the border hoppers, as they are below IO knowledge, especially in udon but they may show up in the overall figures, but cannot be belonging to any one particular province, maybe that is why Nong Khai province is so hig but in reality the numbers are pure speculation.

Foreigners ( is NON THAIS ) must be high with Lao, Cambodia and Vietnamese people coming here readily as well as the Chinese connection which seems to be growing by leaps and bounds, whether they are all legal is anyones guess. Laotians I know , go every one or two months and just renew their visa, time three hours cost almost zero, I suspect that other bordering countries may be the same so numbers are NOT KNOWN, Westerners ( farangs ) the figures are far more controlled with yearly Visas and other matters that we all know and love so well, but as has been said there a a few ( maybe more than a few ) who duck below the radar and have been here for so long that Visas have expired and they will probably soon , but one never really knows. For them leaving the country is not an option at all, but I am sure if they want to they will.

The figures are probably also manipulated for many political purposes and in some cases to pursure monetary objectives, what i do know is that if all the farangs living here got up and left,Thailand would have one hell of a very deep black hole in their finances that they would have a major problem in getting out of it, that is why as I have often said they treat us with scant regard but need us at the same time.
if one considers the average farang long stayer will spend approximatel minimum of half a million baht per year every year, mulitply that by the general figure and then mulitply that by the number of provinces ( excluding bangkok ) The figures are mind boggling. AND Thais do nothing to get that money into their country either. truely Amazing really.