Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

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pf-flyer
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by pf-flyer » November 12, 2019, 8:50 am

[quote=sometimewoodworker post_id=558182 time=1573522235 user_id=13953]

Be careful to separate the [b]visa[/b] and the [b]permission to stay [/b]

They are not the same and using the word [b]visa[/b] when you have no current visa will and does cause confusion and will get wrong answers to questions.
[/quote]

********************************************************
Yes.... That is what I was doing.. When my wife and I met with the lady at our local immigration office the lady just made a quick glance at our VISA that allowed us to enter Thailand for the first year. She kept pointing to and referring to the permission to stay. It is the permission of stay that permits us to stay in Thailand for another year.
Note: I remember when my wife and I first arrived in Thailand in 2012 with our VISA and the Thai Immigration Officer at the Airport pointed to our visas and said " One Year Cup ". Now it all makes sense to me.


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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by Kenr6583 » November 12, 2019, 9:04 am

sometimewoodworker wrote:
November 12, 2019, 8:30 am
Kenr6583 wrote:
November 11, 2019, 7:01 am
I just read on several websites that the only two visas that are required to have Thai health insurance are the O-A and the O-X visas.
That is correct for the VISA.

Be careful to separate the visa and the permission to stay

They are not the same and using the word visa when you have no current visa will and does cause confusion and will get wrong answers to questions.

Visas can never be extended.
Not to argue, but after reading the Thai Embassy website, tourist visas can be extended. The point I was agreeing with is that if he changes his visa from O-A to marriage, again, according to the website, health insurance is not mandatory.

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 12, 2019, 12:12 pm

Kenr6583 wrote:
November 12, 2019, 9:04 am
sometimewoodworker wrote:
November 12, 2019, 8:30 am
Kenr6583 wrote:
November 11, 2019, 7:01 am
I just read on several websites that the only two visas that are required to have Thai health insurance are the O-A and the O-X visas.
That is correct for the VISA.

Be careful to separate the visa and the permission to stay

They are not the same and using the word visa when you have no current visa will and does cause confusion and will get wrong answers to questions.

Visas can never be extended.
Not to argue, but after reading the Thai Embassy website, tourist visas can be extended. The point I was agreeing with is that if he changes his visa from O-A to marriage, again, according to the website, health insurance is not mandatory.
“Not to argue”?

The Thai embassy website is using the wrong wording. They are conflating the permission to stay and the visa.

This is not at all uncommon even on official websites to use the wrong translation/wording. It is certainly possible that in Thai there may a phrase or word that has both meanings.

However Visas can never be, are never, extended. whatever that website may say.

A visa is not a permission to stay. It can not be extended.
A permission to stay is not a visa It can be extended.

Provide proof of a visa that has been extended and I will give you a pretty red picture of the head of THAILAND.

Also whatever that website is saying some offices (as far as we know Udon is definitely not one) are saying that ALL extensions that started with an OA do require insurance. Also there is not sufficient data to confirm what individual immigration offices are actually doing, adding in the point that individual immigration officers also have different requirement, so at this point speculation is rather unhelpful.

Please remember that embassy’s are a completely different branch of government to immigration, it’s not very unusual to find old or inaccurate information on embassy websites.

There are many countries where there is no significant difference between the visa and the permission to stay in that country also you cannot stay past the end of your visa. Thailand is, as in many things, different.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by RLTrader » November 12, 2019, 1:43 pm

Years ago I received an O Visa based on retirement which was good for One Year. Each year I ask for and received a One Year extension of said O Visa. PERIOD

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by Bandung_Dero » November 12, 2019, 2:28 pm

Some of my older (>10 years) stamps say "Application of stay is Permitted" the later stamps are saying "Extension of stay Permitted" Been through 2 passports and have not seen a "Permission to Stay" on the stamp
I'm sure it means the same thing. This is all just pedantics!
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by semperfiguy » November 12, 2019, 3:42 pm

This might help solve some of the debate on language used to describe an extension of temporary stay. It's the title of the TM-7 which is submitted requesting an extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom. For those of you who do not have this form, you can complete it here online and print it out to take to Immigration for your next extension.
Attachments
tm7 (1).doc
(55 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 12, 2019, 3:56 pm

RLTrader wrote:
November 12, 2019, 1:43 pm
Years ago I received an O Visa based on retirement which was good for One Year. Each year I ask for and received a One Year extension of said O Visa. PERIOD
Each year you have completed form TM7
D3F34D32-B88A-48C9-9DD4-F8E89FAD7E63.jpeg
I’m not clear where it talks about a visa extension.

Nor yet have I seen any passport with a visa extension.

If your initial visa was for one year and you did not need to make border runs every 90 or fewer days then the visa was a non-OA and unless anything changes before your next renewal you will need insurance.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 12, 2019, 4:36 pm

Bandung_Dero wrote:
November 12, 2019, 2:28 pm
Some of my older (>10 years) stamps say "Application of stay is Permitted" the later stamps are saying "Extension of stay Permitted" Been through 2 passports and have not seen a "Permission to Stay" on the stamp
I'm sure it means the same thing. This is all just pedantics!
I think you mean semantics ;)

The difference is probably related to the older stamps wearing out or revised wording to be a little more clear.

Since the initial under consideration stamp still reads “application of stay is under consideration of the immigration bureau “

As the full wording is “extension of stay permitted up to xxxxxx” another way that is semantically the same is “permission to stay in the kingdom is extended up to xxxxxx”

There is also the notice that states “to keep your stay permit, re-entry permit must be made before leaving Thailand”.

So since no stamp actually has the words “permission to stay” it is an accurate way of describing the “admitted xxxxxx until xxxxxx” initial stamp and the extension of permit to stay.

The problem is that there are different rules that apply to someone who holds a visa than the rules for someone who’s visa has been used or expired, so, no it is not pedantic to differentiate between them.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by RLTrader » November 12, 2019, 6:07 pm

Bandung_Dero wrote:
November 12, 2019, 2:28 pm
Some of my older (>10 years) stamps say "Application of stay is Permitted" the later stamps are saying "Extension of stay Permitted" Been through 2 passports and have not seen a "Permission to Stay" on the stamp
I'm sure it means the same thing. This is all just pedantics!
sometimewoodworker wrote:
November 12, 2019, 4:36 pm
I think you mean semantics ;)

The difference is probably related to the older stamps wearing out or revised wording to be a little more clear.

Since the initial under consideration stamp still reads “application of stay is under consideration of the immigration bureau “

As the full wording is “extension of stay permitted up to xxxxxx” another way that is semantically the same is “permission to stay in the kingdom is extended up to xxxxxx”

There is also the notice that states “to keep your stay permit, re-entry permit must be made before leaving Thailand”.

So since no stamp actually has the words “permission to stay” it is an accurate way of describing the “admitted xxxxxx until xxxxxx” initial stamp and the extension of permit to stay.

The problem is that there are different rules that apply to someone who holds a visa than the rules for someone who’s visa has been used or expired, so, no it is not pedantic to differentiate between them.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by FrazeeDK » November 13, 2019, 11:35 am

we did our 90 day check-in today. Went over and asked specifically about the insurance deal for OA Visas and was given a handout. I then asked about the Foreign Insurance Certificate and was told "No, you must buy one of the listed policies from the TGIA website." Another American was asking them about the possibility of converting an OA to an O which does not require insurance as of yet. He'd already been told it was doable by the Officer in Charge and was getting the details.. We'll see where that goes...
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by FrazeeDK » November 13, 2019, 12:00 pm

well.. the end result is go out of country, come back in with a new visa and convert to a Non O or.. Convert to a Support of a Thai national (marriage)..
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by retired » November 13, 2019, 2:39 pm

Didn't someone in an earlier post say that he came in on and OA and used to gain extensions for retirement but queried if he changed that for an extension on marriage he would be exempt the Insurance requirement??
I have also seen on thaivisa this video that says there are plans afoot to Grandfather those who came in on OAs some years prior to the new rule (which I think is logical and sensible) Tho I'm not holding my breath!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcsZ-IK5Vn8&t=11s

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by retired » November 13, 2019, 2:44 pm

FrazeeDK wrote:
November 13, 2019, 12:00 pm
well.. the end result is go out of country, come back in with a new visa and convert to a Non O or.. Convert to a Support of a Thai national (marriage)..
So let me get this right, entered some years ago on an OA - extensions on the basis of retirement - Insurance required.
Change extension from retirement to supporting Thai wife (Marriage) - No Insurance required?

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 13, 2019, 2:50 pm

retired wrote:
November 13, 2019, 2:39 pm
Didn't someone in an earlier post say that he came in on and OA and used to gain extensions for retirement but queried if he changed that for an extension on marriage he would be exempt the Insurance requirement??
I have also seen on thaivisa this video that says there are plans afoot to Grandfather those who came in on OAs some years prior to the new rule (which I think is logical and sensible) Tho I'm not holding my breath!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcsZ-IK5Vn8&t=11s
There is a report from Udon that they will not require insurance for a marriage extension from an OA visa. There is no confirmation that it will or will not be OK. Until there is a report of someone succeeding we will have to wait.

There has only been one change in extension requirement and only for one type of extension that was grandfathered and that was done at the time the change was announced. In all probability the talking and video are just wishful thinking.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by samuel » November 13, 2019, 3:21 pm

FrazeeDK wrote:
November 13, 2019, 11:35 am
...I then asked about the Foreign Insurance Certificate and was told "No, you must buy one of the listed policies from the TGIA website."...
for me the Information given by the IO sounds correct.
you can only buy foreign insurance when you are applying for the OA visa (abroad). by then you will have to use the form on http://longstay.tgia.org/ "Foreign Insurance Certificate".
when you are applying for extension of stay based on retirement (in Thailand) you have to buy THAI insurance,

Source: http://longstay.tgia.org/home/guidelineoa
First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand.
When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only.


rem: renew the visa = irritating term .... meaning: "apply for extension of stay"

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by semperfiguy » November 13, 2019, 4:31 pm

retired wrote:
November 13, 2019, 2:39 pm
Didn't someone in an earlier post say that he came in on and OA and used to gain extensions for retirement but queried if he changed that for an extension on marriage he would be exempt the Insurance requirement??
I have also seen on thaivisa this video that says there are plans afoot to Grandfather those who came in on OAs some years prior to the new rule (which I think is logical and sensible) Tho I'm not holding my breath!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcsZ-IK5Vn8&t=11s
Retired, I listened very carefully to this video and the lawyer specifically says that as of now those on previously issued O visas will be grandfathered in.... Not O-A! I think we need to make that clear distinction before some people get their hopes up. SORRY!
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by jackspratt » November 13, 2019, 5:16 pm

I listened to about 2 minutes of the linked youtube, and my reaction is that I would take his opinions with a large grain of salt.

When he says that after 31 October, retirement visas applicants overseas will be funneled into an OA visa, I reckon he is talking through his hat. =;

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 13, 2019, 6:06 pm

jackspratt wrote:
November 13, 2019, 5:16 pm
I listened to about 2 minutes of the linked youtube, and my reaction is that I would take his opinions with a large grain of salt.

When he says that after 31 October, retirement visas applicants overseas will be funneled into an OA visa, I reckon he is talking through his hat. =;


I think that he’s talking through an orifice not designed for communication, this seems to be common in his profession.

I agree many of the things he is saying are speculation, he does not seem to understand that at the present people with a visa exempt entry and tourist visa (possibly a transit visa as well) are perfectly able to get a non O visa issued in Thailand though there is the requirement to bring 800k into thailand as part of the process.

He also seems oblivious to the fact that the only places you can get an OA are in your home country or country of legal residents while non O visas are widely available.

I suspect that his talk of “grandfathering out” is a typical lawyer term when he could easily has used the more accurate and simple “will not need”

There is no current talk of any genuine second grandfather exception.

While the speculation could be correct it could just as easily be wrong.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by Giggle » November 13, 2019, 6:27 pm

I don't often seek immigration advice, but when I do, I prefer rambling, drunken, disjointed barracks lawyers on a fly-by- night online forum over someone with a fancy law degree.

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Re: Mandatory health insurance for Non O-A visa effective from 31 October

Post by sometimewoodworker » November 13, 2019, 8:34 pm

There have now been several reports of people with current OA visas issued prior to October 31 entering, being asked if they have insurance and when the answer is no being stamped in for a year.

To be clear no insurance is being required for older but valid OA visas
Last edited by sometimewoodworker on November 13, 2019, 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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