Reminder News on snake bites

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Barney
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Reminder News on snake bites

Post by Barney » November 15, 2017, 8:09 pm

https://farmers.org.au/news-updates/nff ... 12017.html

Doesn't apply to countries who don't have poisonous snakes I suppose. Be careful out in the villages.

Or poms fielding in the outfield. :-"



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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by DuiDui49 » November 15, 2017, 8:44 pm

Thanks for the headsup on this subject Barney..question i ask myself is....
recent advances in medication mean we can now treat any snakebite with a generic polyvalent anti-venom, so identification is no longer necessary...
..Does anyone know if we have this lgeneric polyvalent anti-venom here in Udon?

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by wazza » November 15, 2017, 10:01 pm

DuiDui49 wrote:
November 15, 2017, 8:44 pm
Thanks for the headsup on this subject Barney..question i ask myself is....
recent advances in medication mean we can now treat any snakebite with a generic polyvalent anti-venom, so identification is no longer necessary...
..Does anyone know if we have this lgeneric polyvalent anti-venom here in Udon?
This is produced for the snakes found in Australia.

Different pathophysiology for different countries and their snakes also, but some countries will have some...

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by eagle » November 16, 2017, 2:58 pm

DuiDui49 wrote:
November 15, 2017, 8:44 pm
Thanks for the headsup on this subject Barney..question i ask myself is....
recent advances in medication mean we can now treat any snakebite with a generic polyvalent anti-venom, so identification is no longer necessary...
..Does anyone know if we have this lgeneric polyvalent anti-venom here in Udon?
In Thailand they have a new polyvalent antivenin for 18 different snakes. I do not know the price.

Here are two links, where is some information about "old" antivenins:
https://www.snake-antivenin.com/
http://www.saovabha.com/en/product_serum.asp?nTopic=2

As you all can see, generic polyvalent antivenin is 30 euros more expensive. Just to remind that avg. dose is 8 bottles and can be even 12 bottles. I bad bite situation 3 dose could be needed. Means about 90 000 thb extra cost, if not know the snake. If snake is a cobra, cost using cobra antivenin could be 165 000 thb. Average is about 100 000 thb. Polyvalent antivenin would be 255 000 thb.

That makes some difference. Of course, when it is a matter of life, cost is not the number one. It is very important to understand that polyvalent antivenin can be used for different snakes, but dose is based on snake and bite. If you do not know the snake, you can get a triple dose. Or if you get bitten by rat snake... ok, usually they wait to see some symptoms before injecting antivenin. You know that you can die because of allergy to antivenin.

The place in Thailand where they have antivenin ready to inject is always Government Hospital.

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by wazza » November 16, 2017, 3:59 pm

There is also the Snake Bite Venom Kit, which swabs the bite area and can identify the snake and toxicity of venom.

Its why you never wash the wound, simple test and allows immediate treatments based on clinical findings.

In Australia, Anti venom is rarely given outside a major hospital with ICU facilities,

Several Reasons, First aid treatment is very effective, urine and blood pathology can indicate whats really going on inside, and lastly, as Eagle has stated, acute reactions / anaphylaxis to the antivenom itself.

years ago, I treated a snake bite victim in a remote Island off Tasmania, Australia, he had been bitten twice by a deadly Chappell Island Tiger Snake local Island hospital gave antivenom to the patient and he then had a full blown anaphylaxis to this and respiratory arrest . Those days the antivenom was made using horse serem, and so was tetanus vaccination and he had had severe reaction as kid to this. Wasnt identified at the time.

Ventilated the patient by hand for 55 mins, till we got to a major hospital and he survived from his ICU admission.

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by mickojak » November 17, 2017, 4:37 pm

The main thing to remember with a snake bite is that you need to stay calm and still to keep your blood flow as slow as possible to stop the venim spreading. No good having anti venoms if you dont make it to the hospital. Have your phone with you. Get bitten, sit down, ring for help and wait as calm as possible.
Mick

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by FrazeeDK » November 18, 2017, 10:01 am

I had seen in the past somehwere on the forum that the Military Hospital has be best anti-venom capability in Udon.. Don't know if that is true or current...
Dave

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by eagle » November 18, 2017, 1:12 pm

FrazeeDK wrote:
November 18, 2017, 10:01 am
I had seen in the past somehwere on the forum that the Military Hospital has be best anti-venom capability in Udon.. Don't know if that is true or current...
I believe that it could be true, because Army is Government related.

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by wazza » November 18, 2017, 1:18 pm

The Private system wouldnt touch it.

Expiry Dates and low case presentations.

Someone would have done a summary of snake bites per province that presented for clinical assistance and made recomendations based on Case Loads / Locations / Pathology ICU monitoring etc.

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by 747man » November 18, 2017, 1:42 pm

mickojak wrote:
November 17, 2017, 4:37 pm
The main thing to remember with a snake bite is that you need to stay calm and still to keep your blood flow as slow as possible to stop the venim spreading. No good having anti venoms if you dont make it to the hospital. Have your phone with you. Get bitten, sit down, ring for help and wait as calm as possible.
Mick
Yeah Mick.......
C79BykiU8AAB7eU.jpg

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by wazza » November 18, 2017, 1:48 pm

wazza wrote:
November 18, 2017, 1:18 pm
The Private system wouldnt touch it.

Expiry Dates and low case presentations.

Someone would have done a summary of snake bites per province that presented for clinical assistance and made recomendations based on Case Loads / Locations / Pathology ICU monitoring etc.
That same person would have created a central database of all anti venom . its locations AND EXPIRY dates so small hospitals could switch theirs out with 6 months to go etc....

They would have right ?

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by tinpeeba » May 9, 2020, 1:13 am

Novel way to treat snakebite; scientists demonstrate a completely new way of treating snakebites:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 162158.htm

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by kakariki » May 9, 2020, 9:20 am

eagle wrote:
November 16, 2017, 2:58 pm
DuiDui49 wrote:
November 15, 2017, 8:44 pm
Thanks for the headsup on this subject Barney..question i ask myself is....
recent advances in medication mean we can now treat any snakebite with a generic polyvalent anti-venom, so identification is no longer necessary...
..Does anyone know if we have this lgeneric polyvalent anti-venom here in Udon?
In Thailand they have a new polyvalent antivenin for 18 different snakes. I do not know the price.

Here are two links, where is some information about "old" antivenins:
https://www.snake-antivenin.com/
http://www.saovabha.com/en/product_serum.asp?nTopic=2

As you all can see, generic polyvalent antivenin is 30 euros more expensive. Just to remind that avg. dose is 8 bottles and can be even 12 bottles. I bad bite situation 3 dose could be needed. Means about 90 000 thb extra cost, if not know the snake. If snake is a cobra, cost using cobra antivenin could be 165 000 thb. Average is about 100 000 thb. Polyvalent antivenin would be 255 000 thb.

That makes some difference. Of course, when it is a matter of life, cost is not the number one. It is very important to understand that polyvalent antivenin can be used for different snakes, but dose is based on snake and bite. If you do not know the snake, you can get a triple dose. Or if you get bitten by rat snake... ok, usually they wait to see some symptoms before injecting antivenin. You know that you can die because of allergy to antivenin.

The place in Thailand where they have antivenin ready to inject is always Government Hospital.
Bangkok hospital here in Udon also has it as I found out by accident ;)

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by Barney » October 13, 2020, 1:03 pm

Another reminder for those out and about in the yard or larger property.
I’ve had 3 snakes this past week. 1 was very large and a dark blue to black. Other 2 small about 500mm or less.
I know this is for Aussie snakes but initial first aid is the same treatment.

“Some useful information I found shared by a friend. Worth a read

That bite of summer has well and truly come early this year and with that heat, comes snakes.
This article was written by Rob Timmings
Rob runs a medical/nursing education business Teaching nurses, doctors and paramedics. It’s well worth the read
#ECT4Health

3000 bites are reported annually.
300-500 hospitalisations
2-3 deaths annually.

Average time to death is 12 hours. The urban myth that you are bitten in the yard and die before you can walk from your chook pen back to the house is a load of rubbish.

While not new, the management of snake bite (like a flood/fire evacuation plan or CPR) should be refreshed each season.

Let’s start with a
Basic overview.

There are five genus of snakes that will harm us (seriously)
Browns, Blacks, Adders, Tigers and Taipans.

All snake venom is made up of huge proteins (like egg white). When bitten, a snake injects some venom into the meat of your limb (NOT into your blood).

This venom can not be absorbed into the blood stream from the bite site.

It travels in a fluid transport system in your body called the lymphatic system (not the blood stream).

Now this fluid (lymph) is moved differently to blood.
Your heart pumps blood around, so even when you are lying dead still, your blood still circulates around the body. Lymph fluid is different. It moves around with physical muscle movement like bending your arm, bending knees, wriggling fingers and toes, walking/exercise etc.

Now here is the thing. Lymph fluid becomes blood after these lymph vessels converge to form one of two large vessels (lymphatic trunks)which are connected to veins at the base of the neck.

Back to the snake bite site.
When bitten, the venom has been injected into this lymph fluid (which makes up the bulk of the water in your tissues).

The only way that the venom can get into your blood stream is to be moved from the bite site in the lymphatic vessels. The only way to do this is to physically move the limbs that were bitten.

Stay still!!! Venom can’t move if the victim doesn’t move.
Stay still!!

Remember people are not bitten into their blood stream.

In the 1980s a technique called Pressure immobilisation bandaging was developed to further ****** venom movement. It completely stops venom /lymph transport toward the blood stream.

A firm roll bandage is applied directly over the bite site (don’t wash the area).

Technique:
Three steps: keep them still
Step 1
Apply a bandage over the bite site, to an area about 10cm above and below the bite.
Step 2:
Then using another elastic roller bandage, apply a firm wrap from Fingers/toes all the way to the armpit/groin.

The bandage needs to be firm, but not so tight that it causes fingers or toes to turn purple or white. About the tension of a sprain bandage.

Step 3:
Splint the limb so the patient can’t walk or bend the limb.

Do nots:
Do not cut, incise or suck the venom.
Do not EVER use a tourniquet
Don’t remove the shirt or pants - just bandage over the top of clothing.
Remember movement (like wriggling out of a shirt or pants) causes venom movement.

DO NOT try to catch, kill or identify the snake!!! This is important.

In hospital we NO LONGER NEED to know the type of snake; it doesn’t change treatment.

5 years ago we would do a test on the bite, blood or urine to identify the snake so the correct anti venom can be used.
BUT NOW...
we don’t do this. Our new Antivenom neutralises the venoms of all the 5 listed snake genus, so it doesn’t matter what snake bit the patient.

Read that again- one injection for all snakes!
Polyvalent is our one shot wonder, stocked in all hospitals, so most hospitals no longer stock specific Antivenins.

Australian snakes tend to have 3 main effects in differing degrees.

Bleeding - internally and bruising.
Muscles paralysed causing difficulty talking, moving & breathing.
Pain
In some snakes severe muscle pain in the limb, and days later the bite site can break down forming a nasty wound.

Allergy to snakes is rarer than winning lotto twice.

Final tips: not all bitten people are envenomated and only those starting to show symptoms above are given antivenom.

Did I mention to stay still.
~Rob Timmings
Kingston/Robe Health Advisory”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by DuiDui49 » October 13, 2020, 1:16 pm

Thank you so much for the info and update like:this:In hospital we NO LONGER NEED to know the type of snake; it doesn’t change treatment...did not know that..are you sure your info is correct?Need to check whith General Hospital here on site to make sure..or maybe you know,checked already??

Funny you posted it today,had to go under the house to cut off the power to the waterpump while doing some repairs,and a small lightbrown to greenish colored nake sliddered away.Had a Cobra killing one 4 month puppy i had under the stairs up to the front door,ie were my puppy hide when the weather was hot.Cobra i threw over the wall,puppy had to be in the ground.Good thing to have snakes around is..no rats or very few.

Thanks again for the info shared.

DuiDui49
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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by DuiDui49 » October 13, 2020, 1:20 pm

Are snake bites covered by Insurance?

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Re: Reminder News on snake bites

Post by dragonz » October 13, 2020, 3:29 pm

Barney wrote:
October 13, 2020, 1:03 pm
Another reminder for those out and about in the yard or larger property.
I’ve had 3 snakes this past week. 1 was very large and a dark blue to black. Other 2 small about 500mm or less.
I know this is for Aussie snakes but initial first aid is the same treatment.

“Some useful information I found shared by a friend. Worth a readImage

That bite of summer has well and truly come early this year and with that heat, comes snakes.
This article was written by Rob Timmings
Rob runs a medical/nursing education business Teaching nurses, doctors and paramedics. It’s well worth the read
#ECT4Health

3000 bites are reported annually.
300-500 hospitalisations
2-3 deaths annually.

Average time to death is 12 hours. The urban myth that you are bitten in the yard and die before you can walk from your chook pen back to the house is a load of rubbish.

While not new, the management of snake bite (like a flood/fire evacuation plan or CPR) should be refreshed each season.

Let’s start with a
Basic overview.

There are five genus of snakes that will harm us (seriously)
Browns, Blacks, Adders, Tigers and Taipans.

All snake venom is made up of huge proteins (like egg white). When bitten, a snake injects some venom into the meat of your limb (NOT into your blood).

This venom can not be absorbed into the blood stream from the bite site.

It travels in a fluid transport system in your body called the lymphatic system (not the blood stream).

Now this fluid (lymph) is moved differently to blood.
Your heart pumps blood around, so even when you are lying dead still, your blood still circulates around the body. Lymph fluid is different. It moves around with physical muscle movement like bending your arm, bending knees, wriggling fingers and toes, walking/exercise etc.

Now here is the thing. Lymph fluid becomes blood after these lymph vessels converge to form one of two large vessels (lymphatic trunks)which are connected to veins at the base of the neck.

Back to the snake bite site.
When bitten, the venom has been injected into this lymph fluid (which makes up the bulk of the water in your tissues).

The only way that the venom can get into your blood stream is to be moved from the bite site in the lymphatic vessels. The only way to do this is to physically move the limbs that were bitten.

Stay still!!! Venom can’t move if the victim doesn’t move.
Stay still!!

Remember people are not bitten into their blood stream.

In the 1980s a technique called Pressure immobilisation bandaging was developed to further ****** venom movement. It completely stops venom /lymph transport toward the blood stream.

A firm roll bandage is applied directly over the bite site (don’t wash the area).

Technique:
Three steps: keep them still
Step 1
Apply a bandage over the bite site, to an area about 10cm above and below the bite.
Step 2:
Then using another elastic roller bandage, apply a firm wrap from Fingers/toes all the way to the armpit/groin.

The bandage needs to be firm, but not so tight that it causes fingers or toes to turn purple or white. About the tension of a sprain bandage.

Step 3:
Splint the limb so the patient can’t walk or bend the limb.

Do nots:
Do not cut, incise or suck the venom.
Do not EVER use a tourniquet
Don’t remove the shirt or pants - just bandage over the top of clothing.
Remember movement (like wriggling out of a shirt or pants) causes venom movement.

DO NOT try to catch, kill or identify the snake!!! This is important.

In hospital we NO LONGER NEED to know the type of snake; it doesn’t change treatment.

5 years ago we would do a test on the bite, blood or urine to identify the snake so the correct anti venom can be used.
BUT NOW...
we don’t do this. Our new Antivenom neutralises the venoms of all the 5 listed snake genus, so it doesn’t matter what snake bit the patient.

Read that again- one injection for all snakes!
Polyvalent is our one shot wonder, stocked in all hospitals, so most hospitals no longer stock specific Antivenins.

Australian snakes tend to have 3 main effects in differing degrees.

Bleeding - internally and bruising.
Muscles paralysed causing difficulty talking, moving & breathing.
Pain
In some snakes severe muscle pain in the limb, and days later the bite site can break down forming a nasty wound.

Allergy to snakes is rarer than winning lotto twice.

Final tips: not all bitten people are envenomated and only those starting to show symptoms above are given antivenom.

Did I mention to stay still.
~Rob Timmings
Kingston/Robe Health Advisory”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for that info . very helpful with 2 boys always running around the land .Always thought i had to find and kill the snake . This info if correct should be printed in english and thai and posted in every village in thailand .
A few years ago a woman near me was bitten by a cobra under her washing machine . They waited until they found the snake , then took her to phen hospital about the same distance to udon but opposite direction . no anti venom there so finally took her to udon where she died .You know how slow thais are and how they like to talk about the accident i would think by time they killed the snake got her to phen decided to take her to udon and get to udon would have been at least 5 hours or more

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