Exchange Rates

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Brilliant One
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Exchange Rates

Post by Brilliant One » July 27, 2012, 4:14 pm

For some time now I have noticed the exchange rates shown on the Udon Map Home Page are quite high.
For example, right now it is showing the Australian Dollar = 32.9 baht.
Where can I get this rate?
Today, the large banks in Udon Thani were quoting around 32.2 to 32.3



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jackspratt
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Exchange Rates

Post by jackspratt » July 27, 2012, 4:36 pm


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JimboPSM
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Post by JimboPSM » July 27, 2012, 4:57 pm

The latest exchange rates obtainable from the major banks in Udon can be found at the following links, they are updated pretty quickly as and when changes occur through the day:

Bangkok bank:
Kasikorn Bank:
Siam Commercial Bank:
Krungsri Bank (formerly Bank of Ayudhya):
Krung Thai Bank:
As JS noted, this site is usually up to date and has the advantage of letting you compare the latest rates across all the banks; however it should be noted that not all the banks listed operate in Udon and you need to input the currencies to be exchanged from and to along with the type of transaction (e.g. TT, Notes, Sight Bill, Cheque, Draft):
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Exchange Rates

Post by KB_Texas » July 27, 2012, 5:32 pm

Brilliant One wrote:For some time now I have noticed the exchange rates shown on the Udon Map Home Page are quite high.
For example, right now it is showing the Australian Dollar = 32.9 baht.
Where can I get this rate?
Today, the large banks in Udon Thani were quoting around 32.2 to 32.3
I always thought that was the sell price, e.g. the price if you want to buy dollars with baht, vs the buy price, which is the lower rate and if you want to sell dollars for baht. If this is wrong, someone can straighten me out. ;)

I use the link provided above and look at the TT rate, which I understand is the ATM rate, and is what I am interested in most. Right now (17:32 2012-07-27), the US $ is listed at 31.44 TT rate, whereas UM is showing 31.6.

KB

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Stantheman
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Post by Stantheman » July 27, 2012, 8:22 pm

A while ago I noticed this difference and did some checking. I found that the site UM usesmight be displaying inter-bank and government buying rates, not what we the everyday user gets from transer and ATM use.

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Brilliant One
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Post by Brilliant One » July 28, 2012, 12:19 pm

Thanks JackSpratt and JimboPSM. I have added the "daytoday" comparison site to my favourites. It is definitely more representative of the rates that are available from the banks.

For what it's worth, I have found on several occasions that there is approx. 1 baht difference between the rate available at Suvarnabhumi Airport and the rate offered when I arrive at Udon Thani Airport. It can be significant if you're exchanging a few thousand dollars.

I will ignore the rates shown on the Udon Map Home Page, as they are quite irrelevant.

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JimboPSM
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Post by JimboPSM » July 28, 2012, 6:28 pm

Brilliant One wrote:.... For what it's worth, I have found on several occasions that there is approx. 1 baht difference between the rate available at Suvarnabhumi Airport and the rate offered when I arrive at Udon Thani Airport. It can be significant if you're exchanging a few thousand dollars.
Unless things have changed recently that would be an unfortunate coincidence due to a movement in the rates but not due to where the bank is located; the rates at the separate Thai commercial banks whether in Udon, Bangkok or at Swampy are all updated concurrently and can be verified (if you have an internet connection) with the sites I listed.

In the past I have checked the rates I’ve received at various banks (Bangkok, Kasikorn and Siam Commercial banks) in Bangkok , Udon (including the airport), Swampy and Hua Hin and I have always been able to match them with the rates shown on the internet at the respective Thai Banks.

For those who may be interested, as most Thai banks keep their historical exchange rate data on the internet if you have retained your exchange rate slips (which give the date, time and rate) you can always verify the rate that you got and compare it with the rates at the other Thai banks.
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Post by Brilliant One » July 29, 2012, 10:07 am

JimboPSM wrote:Unless things have changed recently that would be an unfortunate coincidence due to a movement in the rates but not due to where the bank is located; the rates at the separate Thai commercial banks whether in Udon, Bangkok or at Swampy are all updated concurrently and can be verified (if you have an internet connection) with the sites I listed.
I don't think that is the case now. For instance, every Bank Exchange kiosk at Suvarnabhumi displays the exact same rate, regardless of which bank it is. Whereas, in Udon Thani, as well as Bangkok, Phuket, Samui etc. there is some variation between the different banks, which provides some competition. I have noticed the difference of approx. 1 baht rate on several occasions now, and I have now come to expect it, and it is confirmed on arrival at Udon Thani about an hour later. I believe there is an arrangement for the banks not to compete against each other at Suvarnabhumi.

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Post by KamalaFarang » July 30, 2012, 11:33 pm

jackspratt wrote:This site is very up to date:

http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/default.aspx
I have this site pinned to Firefox. Every .01 difference between what each bank gives you is 200 baht, if you pull 20,000 at a time like I do. The difference right now between Krung Thai and CIMB Thai (the highest and the lowest banks) is .12 baht. Times 20000 baht is 2400 baht. Pull that three times a month and you've saved 7200 baht a month by going to the bank with the best rate. It can change a few times a day...hourly.

Isn't that the best tip you could give an expat? Kemo.

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BobHelm
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Post by BobHelm » July 31, 2012, 8:32 am

Don't think that your mathematics is correct KamalaFarang.

If you convert £400 at an exchange rate of, say, 50 baht to the pound then you will get 20,000 baht.
If there is a 0.12 top to bottom difference & 50 baht to the £ is the lowest rate; then the highest rate will yield you
50.12 * £400 = 20,048 baht. So a 48 baht difference.
Still worth doing if it is a matter of two banks next door to each other, as in the Complex...

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Post by KamalaFarang » July 31, 2012, 10:37 am

BobHelm wrote:Don't think that your mathematics is correct KamalaFarang.

If you convert £400 at an exchange rate of, say, 50 baht to the pound then you will get 20,000 baht.
If there is a 0.12 top to bottom difference & 50 baht to the £ is the lowest rate; then the highest rate will yield you
50.12 * £400 = 20,048 baht. So a 48 baht difference.
Still worth doing if it is a matter of two banks next door to each other, as in the Complex...

You're right. When I redid the math it comes out to be about 90 baht difference in the example I gave of pulling 20000 in USD.

Your suggestion is the way I usually work it. I know what banks are paying so I'll choose one over another if it's convenient.

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Post by JimboPSM » August 1, 2012, 9:46 am

Although I’ve spent a lot of time analysing Forex data over the years, mostly it has been on TT rates, I’ve never really looked at the rates relating to notes.

A casual inspection of the rates offered by the banks shows that the note rate is the worst that they offer.

As a one off exercise I took a snapshot of the note rates from five Thai banks (Bangkok, Kasikorn, Siam Commercial, Krungsri & Thai Military) for four currencies (USD, GBP, EUR & AUD) all based on their published opening Round 1 rates on Monday this week.

Although I tried to take what I thought would be a common starting point it appears that may not actually be the case, if the starting point was common I would have expected the average of the buy/sell rate to be broadly identical in all cases but it was not – so care must be taken not to read too much into the figures.

The best buy rates and the best sell rates are all shown with white numbers on a green background.

The best spread is shown with white numbers on a green background and the worst spread is shown with white numbers on a red background – looking at it cynically (is there any other way to look at banks these days?) the size of the spread indicates how greedy the bank is and consequently helps to show how good (or bad) a deal that the customer is getting.
Notes 2012.07.30.jpg
While as a one off snapshot, it would be dangerous to draw too many conclusions, one conclusion that can be drawn is that based on the spreads taken by the banks on the currencies I looked at those changing USD get by far the best deal and those changing AUD get the worst deal.

What can be said, as always, is how important it is to do a bit of research if you are going to get the best rate for your money.
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Post by Brilliant One » August 1, 2012, 11:25 am

Thanks for that JimboPSM - a very detailed analysis indeed.
I have a thing about the way banks profiteer and rip off their everyday customers. I always try to minimise the fees and interest I pay to the banks.

In Australia the banks offer a much lower exchange rate (cash) than I can get here.

The strategy that seems to work best for me is a combination of the following:
1. I wait for what I consider to be a good rate, say 32+ baht per $AU and then arrange a TT to my Bangkok Bank account.
2. I bring some $AU cash with me to Thailand each time and monitor the various banks for the best rate.

Just as an example of my previous post concerning the variations between Suvarnabhumi and elsewhere, I arrived at Suvarnabhumi on July 20th and the rate was 31.26 per $AU (all banks). When I arrived at Udon Thani an hour later, I got 32.34 at the Ayudhya Bank (Krungsri), = 2160 baht extra. The Bangkok Bank kiosk next door was showing 32.28.

I got caught about 3 years ago when I bought a small property in Udon and I could only get about 23 baht per $AU. The current exchange rate would have made a huge difference!

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Post by Asiaphile » August 1, 2012, 1:02 pm

I've always wondered why Udonmap has been presenting us with some blue-sky rates of exchange that bear no relevance whatsoever to the rates that banks actually apply.
Having noticed long ago that they were just virtual, I've always ignored them. However, a friend who is overseas at the moment has just the other day transferred money to my stateside bank account so that I could make ATM withdrawals here to pay the yearly rent of his apartment. He based himself on the rate on this site's home page.
When I checked the online statement of my home bank, it turned out that he had sent me almost B1400 short! :evil:

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Post by JimboPSM » August 2, 2012, 7:56 am

:oops: :oops: CORRECTION :oops: :oops:

In my post above the formula in the spreadsheet that I used to calculate the buy/sell bank note spread percentage was incorrect.

An amended version appears below with the corrected spread percentage figures in the purple rectangle:
Notes 2012.07.30 - Corrected.jpg
For anyone sad enough to be interested in what I got wrong, this is an example for cell H4:

The original incorrect formula was: H4 =+G4/(+D4+E4)/2

The corrected formula is: H4 =+G4/((+D4+E4)/2)

The omission of the pair of brackets (shown in red) meant that the spread percentage was a quarter of what it should have been :oops:
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Post by bumper » August 3, 2012, 12:31 pm

Part of the explanation is exchange rates really change in seconds. I noted that on my last transfer from Bank Of Bangkok, The posted rate was 31.50 I actually got 31.40. Had I went to SCB it would have been even less. So the bottom line is nothing is etched in stone. It will vary from bank to bank and minute to minute.

Reading that business people are buying dollars something must be on the horizon.

I'll safe that for was up with the baht thread.

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Post by JimboPSM » August 5, 2012, 11:56 am

Some analysis of the spreads taken by Kasikorn Bank since 2001 on TT transactions and bank notes (unfortunately I don’t have the same level of data from other banks so I can’t compare them in the same way).

These charts show the spreads taken on TT and Bank Note transactions by Kasikorn Bank (based on the closing rate in Thailand each day) for the GBP, USD and AUD since 2001 and for the EUR since 2002 (when Euro notes were first issued).

There are a number of sharp spikes that can be seen on the charts; generally speaking these have occurred when there has been significant political and/or economic uncertainty and/or volatility in the markets.

However there is one particularly large, unusual and extended spike for AUD bank notes (and to a lesser extent on AUD TT's) which started on 29th October 2008 and carried on for over two years to 23rd February 2011 – anyone have any ideas why AUD notes (and to a much lesser extent TT's) were treated for this period as though they apparently had leprosy?

More recently there was a spike in the AUD TT last year which has still carries on today :-k

TT percentage spreads:
Spreads - TT.jpg
Bank Note percentage spreads:
Spreads - Bank Notes.jpg
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Post by bumper » August 5, 2012, 12:34 pm

Excellent as usual, Aussie dollar went up against the U.S. Dollar.

Tomorrow should be an interesting day, if my theory is correct we should see the baht gain strength. The U.S. markets closed on a higher note, at the open tomorrow I expect the SET to gain and that should reflect in the baht rate.

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Post by JimboPSM » August 6, 2012, 3:42 pm

Another view of the Kasikorn Bank spread on TT, T/C and Bank note transactions for the USD which are based on THB per USD.

The USD is unique (at least in the currencies I have checked) in having a fixed spread in THB per USD.

For instance, looking at TT transactions (apart from the occasional spike) the spread from 2001 to 2006 was 0.15 THB, then increased by a third to 0.20 THB for most of the next two years and then increased by a quarter to 0.25 THB where it remains today.

Increases such as these (which are common in banks across the world) produce quite dramatic increases in profitability which are wholly disproportionate to the actual cost of operations.
Spreads - USDTHB01.jpg
The spikes in the chart (as I have said previously) are generally due to significant political and/or economic uncertainty and/or volatility in the markets.
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Post by bumper » August 6, 2012, 6:02 pm

Well my theory was correct, SET up baht up. Trigger the job numbers last week out of the U.S. But, it works both ways, Bad news the markets will drop and the SET will drop and the baht will go down a bit. The BOT maintains good control of what is going on with the exchange rates so far.

Would be intersting to see if the SET charts of the same period, show the same spikes. The way the SET has been bouncing around I wouldn't doubt it one bit. I intend to go back into the SET market. But, not at these levels I don't think they will hold.

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