UK Bereavement Benefit and Allowancs

[chelt86-2-a3gh]

Hi Everyone
Bear with me and tried to find the subject and am new here today.
Yes, sorry if in the wrong area, but was enquiring as to bereavement allowances and benefits re: The UK
My current understanding of the current rules regarding this is that if you are 45 years old and under State Pension Age then your spouse can claim a bereavement benefit/lump sum of 2,000 pounds and can claim 52 weeks allwance, subject to The Pensions People calculations.
It is quite clear in that this is not limited to people in the UK and based on NI contributions.

I have written to the International Pensions people in Newcastle and yes see one can download a from BB1 form, but not sure if it is for people living in the UK and have asked the quiestion, is it the same form for people in Thailand and if not how do you get sent it and also ofcourse a different bank mandate, but confirmed by email the first paragraph.
In the notes, it states when one loses a spouse, then to my understanding, one has to ring for the forms package, but this is my understanding.
Myself, I would like to have the forms and be able to explain to my dear wife, what is what and then fill in as much as I can.
Can anyone else share any news regarding the forms to UK citizens over here and where can you download them. Perhaps it is the same form.
Cheers
John W

[rreddin]

Like you, I too have searched the DWP's website and other places for a definitive answer to this question, but without success. My enquiry was prompted by a statement contained in an email to me from the Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners (CABP). This is what the email said:

"I am a UK State pensioner and have been living in Thailand since 15 August 2008 to care for my Thai wife and her sick mother.

Since that time my State Pension has been frozen at the rate I received prior to emigrating; recently the UK Government amended legislation so that my wife will no longer, on my demise, receive a small state pension, bereavement benefit or bereavement grant, all of which were promised when issuing her with a National Insurance number."

Please update this thread when you get a response from the DWP's International Pensions department.

[rreddin]

Update to my last post.

Under the Pensions Act 2014, the recipient of bereavement support payment must be ordinarily resident in Great Britain (which I take to mean they have unlimited leave to remain in the UK which is still extant), or that they are resident in one of the specified territories. The specified territories are those countries in which UK pensions are indexed linked. Thailand is not one of those countries.

So, to answer the OP, If your Thai wife is not ordinarily resident in Great Britain upon your death, even though she may meet the other qualifying criteria, she will not receive bereavement support payment.

[davecryan]

So the answer is that nobody from your familiy notifies the DWP or any other official Dept of your death. This way she will still receive your Pension until the "error" is discovered....and they can't claim it back.
I have checked out this situation for my wife and it is her Plan A.
Not entirely ethical or moral but neither is the way that OAPs are being treated......whilst they handout millions to non contributing immigrants.

[can123]

Of course they can claim it back. I know because I used to "claim it back" for them. Stealing money from the Government is neither ethical nor moral and is purely dishonest. Those who do it are just thieves.

[mortiboy]

I think you'll find once a farang is kicked his clogs,the authorities are informed.Then the Embassy informed.
Who then inform the government of the persons country.
If you dont inform them, and carry on receiving payments,would they look for relatives to claim back?
But thats state pension . If a private pension, maybe different.
Just last month my private pension company sent me a online form enquiring if I "still alive and kicking."
Also had to be signed by witness UK

[bignote1]

Not entirely ethical or moral but neither is the way that OAPs are being treated......whilst they handout millions to non contributing immigrants.

Why do people want to perpetuate this myth?

From the Huffington Post Nov--2013 :--

Recent immigrants to Britain are better educated, pay more taxes and draw less state benefits than native Britons.

The findings, taken from official government data, came in a heavyweight report into the fiscal consequences of immigration to the UK, published on Monday by the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM) at University College London.

The authors of the report concluded that fears that "benefit tourists" were coming to the UK with no intention of working were "disconnected from reality". David Cameron previously suggested immigration was a "constant strain" on public services.

According to the report, immigrants who arrived after 1999 in Britain, and made up a third of the overall immigrant population in the UK in 2011, were 45% less likely to receive state benefits than native Brits. They were also 3% less likely to live in social housing.

They were also better educated than native Britons. In 2011, 32% of those from the European Economic Area (EEA) and 43% of those from outside of the region had a university degree, whereas for native Brits it was less than one in five (21%).

Recent immigrants from the European Economic Area (EEA) contributed on average 34% more taxes than they received as transfers, while those from outside of the EEA contributed 2% more.

Professor Christian Dustmann, director of CReAM and co-author of the study, said: "Immigrants who arrived since 2000 have made a very sizeable net fiscal contribution and therefore helped to reduce the fiscal burden on UK-born workers.

"Our study also suggests that over the last decade or so, the UK has benefited fiscally from immigrants from EEA countries, who have put in considerably more in taxes and contributions than they received in benefits and transfers.

"Given this evidence, claims about “benefit tourism” by EEA immigrants seem to be disconnected from reality."

[can123]

I think you'll find once a farang is kicked his clogs,the authorities are informed.Then the Embassy informed.
Who then inform the government of the persons country.
If you dont inform them, and carry on receiving payments,would they look for relatives to claim back?
But thats state pension . If a private pension, maybe different.
Just last month my private pension company sent me a online form enquiring if I "still alive and kicking."
Also had to be signed by witness UK

They look to the estate of the deceased person and this, in practice, means that the family do not inherit as much as they expected. This applies equally to state and private pensions. Legal action may be taken to recover monies stolen but it is also possible for criminal proceedings to be taken against the executor/administrator of the estate for acting illegally when making settlement.

The form you had to sign and be witnessed is called a " life certificate" and is used by most pension providers when somebody reaches the age of 70 years.

[Brian Davis]

Just as an aside, I have spent a lot of time putting together guidance packages for my wife and eldest UK son, on what to do when I do pass, although hoping I've still years left yet. I imagine most Thai wives would not find it easy dealing with the various UK agencies. Whilst, other than pensions, all I have left in the UK is a small bank account, the main idea in having my son appointed executor is so he can deal with the administration, partly ensuring my wife gets her entitlements.

Part of my checks have been to try and establish what she or my son(now just nearing 4 years old) may be entitled from the UK government - and I'm still not sure! Every piece of information I received said changes are happening,from April 2016 particularly, so I figured I'd just wait a while until new laws have taken effect and ask again.

Only this month I've becoming entitled to my own state pension. In my devious way , it did occur to me to advise my wife not to tell the pension people I'm dead. But checks are made, I don't want my executor or wife caused later hassle and feel reclaim could affect any state money she MIGHT be entitled to, or even my employer pension benefits to her.

(Immigration to the UK? I always think of the hordes desperate to get in e.g. Calais. Why?)

[chelt86-2-a3gh]

Yes Hi Everyone
Yes indeed under the guidance notes tyhe next of kin ie a Thai wife would be entitled to a Bereavement Benefit and Benefit allowance.
Yes indeed it is very very complicated and hard to explain, when one is not sure definately.
I have indeed sent another email yesterday asking about whether there is any other form other than BBi for foreign British expats and they said an answer in 10 days, the stndard email.

In the past definately confirmed that your next in kin would (depending on your record NI record would be entitled to the bereavement benefits, provided aged 45 and under State Pension age.

Regarding the State Pension age this was going to be scrapped and not sure 2016/2007 and the spouse would not be able to claim on husbands ni contributions and in any case as it stands the wife would have to be at State Pension age.

I will clarrify when I get the answers, but no on reading the notes, one does not have to be living in the UK.
The only thing querying is the form. The BB1 form or is there another one.
Cheers
John W

[can123]

The actual form is of little relevance and if one feels that there is an entitlement a claim should not be delayed for want of a specific form. An ordinary letter can constitute a claim and , more important, the date of that claim can be treated as the date of the letter and not that of a completed form. The government, in the form of the Secretary of State can determine what constitutes a valid claim and strict adherence to procedures is not always required. Following an accepted claim, the government, in the form of Adjudication Officer, then determines it.

[rreddin]

Yes Hi Everyone
Yes indeed under the guidance notes tyhe next of kin ie a Thai wife would be entitled to a Bereavement Benefit and Benefit allowance.
Yes indeed it is very very complicated and hard to explain, when one is not sure definately.
I have indeed sent another email yesterday asking about whether there is any other form other than BBi for foreign British expats and they said an answer in 10 days, the stndard email.

In the past definately confirmed that your next in kin would (depending on your record NI record would be entitled to the bereavement benefits, provided aged 45 and under State Pension age.

Regarding the State Pension age this was going to be scrapped and not sure 2016/2007 and the spouse would not be able to claim on husbands ni contributions and in any case as it stands the wife would have to be at State Pension age.

I will clarrify when I get the answers, but no on reading the notes, one does not have to be living in the UK.
The only thing querying is the form. The BB1 form or is there another one.
Cheers
John W

You might care to have a read of Section 30 of the Pensions Act 2014, which you will find here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/19/part/5

That section makes it clear that the claimant must ordinarily be resident in Great Britain, an EEA state or one of sixteen other countries with which the UK has a reciprocal arrangement (see list below).

It would also be worth your while reading the online guidance from the DWP at https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroa ... t-benefits. That advice was updated in April 2015.

My reading of these documents is that if your Thai wife can claim bereavement allowance if she is ordinarily resident in Great Britain at the time of your death. She will also be able to claim bereavement allowance if she is ordinarily resident in any EEA state or one of these 16 countries:

Barbados
Bermuda
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Canada
Macedonia
Israel
Jamaica
Kosovo
Channel Islands
Mauritius
Montenegro
New Zealand
the Philippines
Serbia
Turkey
USA

Thailand is not one of those states. If your wife is ordinarily resident in Thailand at the time of your death, she will not qualify for a bereavement allowance.

[trubrit]

There appears to be some confusion here between bereavement payment and benefits. There is no residential requirement for the one off , currently 2 thousand pound death payment. It is payable to the surviving partner subject only to the insurance contributions being met.All benefits are however dependent on residential qualifications .
The important words are "Payment" and "Benefit".

[malc123]

Can the bereavement payment be paid to your children in the UK ?

malc123

[can123]

The issue of death and benefits is important to all UK ex-pats and should be treated seriously. I worked for what was the DHSS and my specialty was , when I worked at HQ, retirement pensions. Although I now know just everything about them under present legislation it is simply too dangerous for me to pass on my knowledge here. Mistakes are easily made and the only sensible thing is for the individual to find out for himself. Each case is unique and because of this there is only one course of action and that is to contact the International Pension Centre on this number

+44 191 21 87608

I spoke to them this morning and they brought my knowledge up to date. They were very helpful and I recommend them over the misinformation which may be given on the various Thai forums.

[trubrit]

Can the bereavement payment be paid to your children in the UK ?

malc123

NO. It is only payable to a surviving spouse.

[chelt86-2-a3gh]

The issue of death and benefits is important to all UK ex-pats and should be treated seriously. I worked for what was the DHSS and my specialty was , when I worked at HQ, retirement pensions. Although I now know just everything about them under present legislation it is simply too dangerous for me to pass on my knowledge here. Mistakes are easily made and the only sensible thing is for the individual to find out for himself. Each case is unique and because of this there is only one course of action and that is to contact the International Pension Centre on this number

+44 191 21 87608

I spoke to them this morning and they brought my knowledge up to date. They were very helpful and I recommend them over the misinformation which may be given on the various Thai forums.

can123
Thank you very much indeed and yes it is a bit of a minefield, to say the least and yeah can be very complicated and have looked at the various sites today and no where does it state one has to reside in the UK and is based on the husbands national insurance record in any case.
Yes agree with you each case is different and yes complex and to repeat a very recent email sent to me and also to a recent letter replying to an earlier email, so they obviously knew living in Thailand and basically if your wife would be able to claim a bereavement benefit(lump sum) and also the bereavement allowance up to a maximum of 52 weeks.
Yes I noticed another post here and the individual (sorry can not remember your name) but wanting to put as much down in writing as one possibly can, as it is very complex for us, let alone our wonderful Thai spouses.
Also I can only the reference to the BB1 form, but again ofcourse no harm in sending a letter, when neeeded.

Just on the subject on the new State rules from April 2016 read the Gov. uk sites today and interestingly it did not completely state that the next of kin would not get a pension, (but again my understanding of it from last year is that they were going to amend this, but if someone is getting a pension now, surely they are not going to lose it.
Also if someone had a NI insurance number and not enough contributions, will they be able to claim.
Interesting indeed and it depends who one speaks to in Govt. Departments right!!!

Will advise furthur on my letter and email sent in last day or so.
Cheers
John W

[chelt86-2-a3gh]

The issue of death and benefits is important to all UK ex-pats and should be treated seriously. I worked for what was the DHSS and my specialty was , when I worked at HQ, retirement pensions. Although I now know just everything about them under present legislation it is simply too dangerous for me to pass on my knowledge here. Mistakes are easily made and the only sensible thing is for the individual to find out for himself. Each case is unique and because of this there is only one course of action and that is to contact the International Pension Centre on this number

+44 191 21 87608

I spoke to them this morning and they brought my knowledge up to date. They were very helpful and I recommend them over the misinformation which may be given on the various Thai forums.

Can 123 Yes I agree with you, but trying to get through now, and engaged all of the time.
Basically and have read before and looked again it may mean yes the Thai spouse would get the 2,000 pounds benefit and you may be entitled yo the Benefits allowance of up to 52 weeks.
Yeah as you say everyone has to find out, but clobberring us on frozen pensions (any more news on this by the way) and in just a tick will give the email address of the Newish Pensions Minister and it is not via Gov. uk) but a disgrace if not helping the widow, after all the tax and contributions one has made.
Cheers
J West
ps Just let's hope somehow this barbaric frozen pension issue will be unfrozen and there was talk of current relaxing of the rules, but ofcourse not definate) We pay our taxes and NI and more and we get treated like not even 3rd class British Subjects

[chelt86-2-a3gh]

Thx can123 Could not get through at all.
+44 is really 001 then the number right.
Any help re" Thai wife who has a NI number and is aged 50 years old, but take your point about each case on it's merit and yes get different replies from gov sites, but appear to be getting the same one in letters, which is encouraging.
Ofcourse no one really knows, until one has experienced it.
Cheers
John

[rreddin]

Thx can123 Could not get through at all.
+44 is really 001 then the number right.
Any help re" Thai wife who has a NI number and is aged 50 years old, but take your point about each case on it's merit and yes get different replies from gov sites, but appear to be getting the same one in letters, which is encouraging.
Ofcourse no one really knows, until one has experienced it.
Cheers
John

I just spoke to the bereavement allowance department. The lady there confirmed that bereavement allowance is changing to what is said in Part 5 of the Pensions Act 2014, but she did not know when that would be. At the moment the bereavement grant of 2,000 GPB is payable to a qualifying spouse/civil partner anywhere in the world; and a bereavement allowance is payable for 52 weeks. The amount of the allowance will depend upon the age of the spouse/civil partner and your National Insurance contributions. When Part 5 of the Pensions Act 2014 comes into force, a bereavement allowance will only be payable to a qualifying applicant if they are ordinarily resident in Great Britain, or an EEA country, or one of the 16 specified territories.

With many of the remaining provisions of the Pensions Act 2014 coming into force in just over 10 month's time, and the "emergency budget'' in July, I think we can safely say that Part 5 will come into force sooner rather than later. It would be prudent to plan accordingly.